Hasted Zombies?

[Altalazar]

If it simply meant "Only take a single move action", you would never have to "round down", since a single move action would allow you to move your normal speed... you don't need to round if you aren't dividing anything!

I think it's clear that as well as being restricted to a single action, you also take your current land speed and divide it by two to determine how far you can move with that single action.

-Hyp.

Looking at it that way, it would appear that "Slow" actually slows you down MORE than a zombie, making it seem even sillier to argue that Haste can't make a zombie move at least normal speed.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Looking at it that way, it would appear that "Slow" actually slows you down MORE than a zombie, making it seem even sillier to argue that Haste can't make a zombie move at least normal speed.

Haste increases a zombie's speed from 30 to 60. What more do you want?

Haste doesn't speed up a Slowed character; it instead dispels the Slow spell, because they are two opposing magics. There's nothing magic to dispel on a Zombie, so it has its normal effect.

-Hyp.

 

[Altalazar]

Haste increases a zombie's speed from 30 to 60. What more do you want?

Haste doesn't speed up a Slowed character; it instead dispels the Slow spell, because they are two opposing magics. There's nothing magic to dispel on a Zombie, so it has its normal effect.

-Hyp.

I think my difficulty with that line of thinking is I try to look at it from a physical perspective overall - that there are speed "notches" or marks that you move up and down and based on certain criteria.

Like so:


======= SLOW notch ===== NORMAL SPEED Notch ==== Hasted Notch =====

And so most things are at the normal notch, but if you are hit with a "slow" spell or are animated as a zombie, you lose a notch, and if you are hasted, you gain a notch. Slow and haste cancel each other out because one notch down and one notch up makes you back where you started.

It seems to get needlessly complicated and convoluted to then start inserting new "notches" on the speed continuim, such as "hasted zombie" - when it would be much simpler and more straightforward to just make the "hasted zombie" move up a notch.

Btw, i'm still waiting on an official answer on this one, though in the game I'm in now, there is a "Zombie Haste" spell that is 2nd level, leaving the 3rd level question an open issue (no one can do haste as of yet...)

 

[Drowbane]

too snarky?

I think my difficulty with that line of thinking is I try to look at it from a physical perspective overall - that there are speed "notches" or marks that you move up and down and based on certain criteria.

Like so:


======= SLOW notch ===== NORMAL SPEED Notch ==== Hasted Notch =====

And so most things are at the normal notch, but if you are hit with a "slow" spell or are animated as a zombie, you lose a notch, and if you are hasted, you gain a notch. Slow and haste cancel each other out because one notch down and one notch up makes you back where you started.

It seems to get needlessly complicated and convoluted to then start inserting new "notches" on the speed continuim, such as "hasted zombie" - when it would be much simpler and more straightforward to just make the "hasted zombie" move up a notch.

Btw, i'm still waiting on an official answer on this one, though in the game I'm in now, there is a "Zombie Haste" spell that is 2nd level, leaving the 3rd level question an open issue (no one can do haste as of yet...)

You asked a question on the RULES forum. If you want an opinion about your HOUSE RULE, try the next forum down.

The speed notch thing, purely house rule based on perceived logic.

Logic has no purchase here. By the RULES, Haste does not cancel out a zombie's slowness.

If you and your group is happy with the HOUSE RULE you've come up with, by all means. Enjoy.

 

[bestone]

Lets just throw back to second edition and let the dm decide what happens, it seems the most logical course. Its rather redundant to argue about this so much. If you are the dm, and think it works one way, run it that way, if not, run it the other.

The rules werent written to encompass every possibility, that would be impossible, you couldnt expect them to foresee every possible situation for every spell being cast on every creature.

I personally would make it supress the zombies slow for the duration of the spell, that may not be exactly how its written, but its how i think it works.

 

[Altalazar]

You asked a question on the RULES forum. If you want an opinion about your HOUSE RULE, try the next forum down.

The speed notch thing, purely house rule based on perceived logic.

Logic has no purchase here. By the RULES, Haste does not cancel out a zombie's slowness.

If you and your group is happy with the HOUSE RULE you've come up with, by all means. Enjoy.

The original point of the post was the the rules don't specifically say what happens in this situation. You claim they do, but they really don't, they are ambiguous. And will remain so until there is an official answer from Wizards. YOUR house rule says that haste doesn't work that way, and that's fine for your game.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The original point of the post was the the rules don't specifically say what happens in this situation. You claim they do, but they really don't, they are ambiguous. And will remain so until there is an official answer from Wizards.

They really do, and they really aren't, and there already is - in the PHB

And remember, even if you want to insert the 'Notch' concept, Zombies and Slow spells are already different. Zombies are restricted to a standard or move action. A Slowed character is restricted to a standard or move action, and moves at half speed - they're a notch behind even Zombies.

So your Notch diagram should read:

Stunned/Dazed Notch (No actions)
Nauseated Notch (Move action only)
Slowed Notch (Move or Standard action only, and reduced to half speed)
Staggered/Surprise Round/Zombie Notch (Move or Standard action only)
Normal Notch
Hasted Notch

So a Slow spell moves a Normal person down two notches, but a Hasted person down only one notch.

A Haste spell moves a Normal person up one notch, and a Slowed person up two notches.

And obviously, by the Notch theory, a Haste spell should have the same effect on a Zombie, a Staggered person, and someone in the surprise round... which is a different effect to what it should have on a Slowed person.

... right?

-Hyp.

 

[Altalazar]

They really do, and they really aren't, and there already is - in the PHB
-Hyp.

That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it. But that doesn't change the fact that the rules are ambiguous on this particular point.

 

[Elethiomel]

That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it. But that doesn't change the fact that the rules are ambiguous on this particular point.

Presenting another's argument as an "opinion" and your own as a "fact"... I find this rude and uncalled-for.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But that doesn't change the fact that the rules are ambiguous on this particular point.

"The rules don't cater for the Notch Theory of Creature Speed" and "The rules are ambiguous" aren't logically equivalent, though.

Zombies are creatures, and the effects of Haste on creatures are unambiguously stated.

-Hyp.