Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="IceFractal" data-source="post: 3870801" data-attributes="member: 27704">Ok, I've been hearing that Save-or-Die isn't fun.  But I don't think reducing it to doing damage is the solution either.  I think Save-or-Die could be fun, if it was less sudden and more dramatic.One solution I've seen that I basically liked was Save-or-Die spells reducing the target to -1d10 HP - it added a chance to save the target, but with an uncertain time limit, and had a decisive effect even when the target was saved.  However, it's been pointed out that this type of SoD gets turned into the old instant-SoD by a minion tossing in a Magic Missile to finish the target off.So here's my idea - decouple the "last chance" period from HP, and just make it a certain number of rounds dependant on spell-level (preferably somewhat random).  Also have the "side-effect" be a lot stronger when the victim is saved than if they resist it in the first place, so that the caster isn't wasting their time.  So here's an example SoD, in general terms:[sblock=Finger of Death]If the target resists the spell, they take 3d6+1/level negative energy damage. If the spell succeeds, the target is stunned and their life-force begins draining away; they will die in X rounds.* During that time, someone can save the target by applying a healing spell/ability and beating the caster in a level check.* Alternately, the target can save themselves by spending an action point.* If the target is saved this way, they take 1d6/level negative energy damage.[/sblock]The side effect doesn't have to be damage:[sblock=Winter's Demise]If the target resists the spell, they are slowed for X rounds (not that long).If the spell succeeds, the target is stunned and will freeze solid (dead) in X rounds.* During that time, someone can save the target by applying a fire spell/ability or dispel magic, and beating the caster in a level check.* Alternately, the target can save themselves by spending an action point.* If the target is saved this way, they are stunned for X rounds.[/sblock]So the basic template is:[sblock=Save or Die]1) Relatively minor effect if the target resists.2) If the spell works, they are stunned (figured this would work best, puts them out of combat but not CdG-able), for a few rounds (less rounds for higher-level spells) and will die at the end of that time.3) They can be saved by a broad class of spells/abilities, but this needs a CL check.4) They can save themselves by using an action point.5) If they avoid death this way, they take a major effect, comparable to other spells of that level.NOTE: There could be some spells that specifically end death effects without a CL check, replacing (to an extent), the ressurection spells.[/sblock]I think this would make SoDs work in an effective but not game-killing way:* If you fail to resist it, you get hit with a significant effect, so the caster isn't wasting their time using it.* Allies have a decent chance to save you, but it isn't automatic, and they have to act fast.* PCs can usually avoid death, if they have action points; also adds some tension to having low action points.  * SoDs are distinct from standard damaging spells, preserving strategy.* If you died, it wasn't because of a single bad save, it was because your whole party was outclassed, or nobody wanted to save you.Now at this point, if they're not already doing things this way in 4E, they're unlikely to start now.  However, there's no reason spells/abilities that work this way can't be added to the game, officially or homebrewed.  So would you use abilties like these?  Are they great, flawed but usable, or completely pointless?</blockquote>

Verification