D&D 4E Heavy Concrete Data on 4e's Skill Challenge System (long, lots of tables)

Tuft said:
I was wondering the same thing. Has anyone heard any hints at what they are going to do?
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Apparently, there has been silence.

My heart goes out to the poor benighted souls trying to play 4E without benefit of Stalker0's skill challenge mod. I don't know how people managed before the internet.

;)
 

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Ydars said:
Hey Stalker; can you re-post your challenge system mod because the link in your post on this page doesn't work; one of the joys of the shift-over to EN2 I expect.
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To the OP -

With this data in mind, how would you readdress the Skill Challenges successes/failures and how would you adjust the tables for Skills by character level/ease of success?
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Thought I would address these both and kill two birds with one stone.

I have created two skill challenge systems to address the problems in the original system as I've seen them.

The first one is here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=230567&highlight=stalker0

This system fixes the math of the first system while adding some new features for the players to use.

The second is here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=232340

This system is a greatly departure from the core system. I remove the success/failure and complexity mechanics, replacing them with a system that is simpler to run and is less "mechanical".

Which one is better? It depends on your style. If your players like the original system but want the math to work the first system will give you that and provide you some more options. If you prefer getting away from the mechanics of skill challenges and focus more on the players and their in character actions, the second system helps to do that.
 

For anyone interested, I've run my own version of the numbers here: http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/gaming/dnd/4e/skill-challenge-broken.html

In short, my numbers agree with Stalker0's. However, I've organized the data so you can compare different difficulty levels. My tables aren't arranged by PC level, so you can easily test different assumptions. Just figure out what the skill modifier and DC are and look up the resulting row. My apologies if someone else already presented the information this way, I didn't see it.
 

Looking for a Skill Challenge

:.-( What I am looking for is a Skill Challenge(s) to asist in a Boot Camp-like start to my new campaign.

Something along the lines of the Urban Chase.

I am also looking for an obstacle course challenge.

Can anyone help me?
 

Sihl said:
:.-( What I am looking for is a Skill Challenge(s) to asist in a Boot Camp-like start to my new campaign.

Something along the lines of the Urban Chase.

I am also looking for an obstacle course challenge.

Can anyone help me?
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This isn't really the right thread for this. But can you be more specific, you're not really giving us anything to go on.
 

silentounce said:
This isn't really the right thread for this. But can you be more specific, you're not really giving us anything to go on.
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Okay, here goes:
Boot Camp:
I want the party to race through Fallcrest as one Skill Challenge, then run through an obstacle course as either a second skill challenge or traps, then I am at a loss for the third challenge.

Encounter 1 (a, b, & c) - The PCs will experience the Classroom training. (Already written up events for this encounter)

Encounter 2 (a, b, & c)– The PCs will experience Basic training.

Encounter 3 (a, b, & c)– The PCs will experience the Combat training. (Already written up events for this encounter)
 

There's a lot of talk about the "numbers," which I tend to agree with Stalker show the skill challenge system is needs fixing and is probably too tricky to implement by any but the most skilled DM's. Unfortunately, that's not was 4e was designed to be. The bigger problem is that the party is almost required to meta-game in order to succeed in these encounters. Some players have to say "I guess I have to sit-out this encounter while McSkilly hogs all the fun." Again, that's runs contrary to 4e designed. In other words, even if you fix the math these other issues still make these encounters unbalanced or clunky to the players. In combat you have Leaders, Defenders, Strikers, Controllers; everyone generally has an important role. I'm sorry, but "Aid Another" is by definition a secondary role, not a fun role to play.

I love the concept of complex Skill Challenges, but just feel the system needs further fixin'.
- Amulan
 

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