Help Constructing a Mind Flayer Paragon class?

[Deaths_Fist]

Okay, so anyone who knows me knows I love Mind Flayers and all their kin. Having finally gotten the opportunity to play one, we are nearing a point in the campaign where I'll be completing the 15 grueling levels necessary to finally move on to another class. Accordingly, I want to check into the options regarding a Mind Flayer Paragon class. I haven't been able to find anything already completed in this regard, so I'm committed to the idea of making one of my own. Hit dice (1d8), BAB (1/2), class skills (2+Int/level, same class skills as Mind Flayer), good saves (Will), and spellcasting progression (+2 levels of psion manifesting out of three class levels) all easily suggest themselves, but the specifics of the class abilities are tougher.

Given the precedent set by the Tiefling paragon and other level-adjustment-based races' paragon classes I've seen, it should pack a little bit more punch than paragon classes like human or elf paragon, but I certainly don't want to overdo it. As I see it, Mind Flayers have some racial features that obviously bear paying attention to as key demonstrations of their race's focus:

- Tentacles!
- Brain Eating!
- Mind Blasting!
- Supreme Mental Might!

Well, duh, you say. Anyone could see those are the main points of Flayerdom. This is true of course, but developing properly balanced statistics for the class itself is a bit troubling so I'm turning to the community at large to lend a helping hand, if it will.

I guess what I'm asking is, what sort of new abilities/boosts to existing abilities would you give a Mind Flayer Paragon? Keep in mind, of course, that these would be ability enhancements appropriate for 16th-level-plus PCs or CR 9+ monsters (and the gap between those has me puzzled in development even more, since powers appropriate to one could be way out of place in the other). Any suggestions are welcome, and as we go along I'll post edits here that I feel should go into the final product. Hopefully we'll eventually arrive at a class anyone would be happy to use.

Here's what we've got so far:

Mind Flayer Paragon (3-level paragon class)
Hit Die: d8
BAB: Poor (1/2)
Good Save: Will
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier
Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot

Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficienies: Mind flayer paragons gain no proficiencies in any weapons or armors.
Powers Known: At 2nd and 3rd level, if you are using the psion manifester variant mind flayer from the XPH, a mind flayer paragon gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if she had gained a level in psion. It does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus psionic feats, and so on).
Ability Boost (Ex): At each level, the mind flayer paragon may choose to add +2 to either its Intelligence or Charisma, but cannot add to the same stat twice in a row. In other words, if the mind flayer paragon chooses +2 Charisma at 1st level, it must choose +2 Intelligence at 2nd level and +2 Charisma again at 3rd, and vice versa.
Grasping Tentacles (Ex): At 1st level, the mind flayer paragon's bonus on grapple checks to oppose an enemy's attempt to escape a grapple with the mind flayer increases to +3 per tentacle already attached instead of +2.
Greater Grasping Tentacles (Ex): At 2nd level, the mind flayer paragon gains Improved Grapple as a bonus feat, even if it doesn't meet any of the feat's prerequisites.
Dominate Person (Sp): At 3rd level, if you are using the standard mind flayer from the MM, the mind flayer paragon gains dominate person as a spell-like ability useable at will. The save DC is equal to (15+Cha modifier).

What does everyone think so far?

 

[Lord Wyrm]

First thing that comes to mind is a +2 to Int for every level. Additional Bonuses to grapple might work well. More psionic powers. Higher Mind Blast save DCs, perhaps as high as another +6 or +7.

 

[Deaths_Fist]

First thing that comes to mind is a +2 to Int for every level. Additional Bonuses to grapple might work well. More psionic powers. Higher Mind Blast save DCs, perhaps as high as another +6 or +7.

Well, +2 Int at at least one of the three levels was gonna be a definite, but do you feel it's balanced to do so at every level? It wouldn't touch on a standard MM-style flayer much, but if I were using the variant manifesting version out of the XPH, a bonus at every level would add up fast, adding to the DCs of its powers and giving it bonus power points on top of all the extra skill points. Comparing it to some monsters of equal DC doesn't seem to give anything too out of place, though, until we add in that bonus to the mind blast you suggest. It seems right in line for a PC at 16th+ level, to bring a lagging DC into line with other spell-like abilities at that level but it's way too much, too fast for a CR 9 to 11. We'll see if I can't find a middle ground and post it up there.

Bonuses to grapple provide several ideas. I was thinking one of two options, or perhaps both if no-one feels it unbalanced. First idea was to give it Improved Grapple as a bonus feat, to help it initiate those grapples with improved grab. Second idea was to bump the bonus the flayer gets on grapple checks for already having a tentacle attached to +3 or +4 instead of +2 per tentacle.

Extra Psionic powers? Hmm, let's see... I think we should adapt it to use both variants of flayer, so we'll either give the flayer two levels of psion power manifestation, or psi-like abilities if they're not using that variant. If they want the psi-like ability variant, how does dominate person at will sound? I think it keeps theme quite well.

Okay, I'm gonna post all this in the original post to see what it looks like so far.

 

[dvvega]

It would depend on how many levels of the class you want. Normally they're 3 levels ... so I would personally follow the format of the other Paragon classes ...

Non-Psionic
-------------
1. Improvement of basic abilities (weapon focus tentacle or bonus grappling feat or reach)
2. Improve main SU ability (mind blast doubles range or effectiveness or similar)
3. Improved ability boost (INT unless saves are based off its CHA)

Psionic
--------
1. Improvement of basic abilities (weapon focus tentacle or bonus grappling feat or reach)
2. Improve main SU ability (give them overchannelling or similar) +1 level psionic class
3. Improved ability boost (INT unless saves are based off its CHA) +1 level psionic class

D

 

[Deaths_Fist]

It would depend on how many levels of the class you want. Normally they're 3 levels ... so I would personally follow the format of the other Paragon classes ...

Non-Psionic
-------------
1. Improvement of basic abilities (weapon focus tentacle or bonus grappling feat or reach)
2. Improve main SU ability (mind blast doubles range or effectiveness or similar)
3. Improved ability boost (INT unless saves are based off its CHA)

Psionic
--------
1. Improvement of basic abilities (weapon focus tentacle or bonus grappling feat or reach)
2. Improve main SU ability (give them overchannelling or similar) +1 level psionic class
3. Improved ability boost (INT unless saves are based off its CHA) +1 level psionic class

D

How's that look so far? I know I've got more ability boosts in there than is standard, but it helps keep the pace on those save DCs with standard characters or monsters and act as a boost to the mind blast ability if needed, or to psionic manifestation if that's the flayer's specialty.

 

[Lord Wyrm]

Its looking pretty good. I say you should include a +2 to Mind Blast DC every level, I say this because Paragon classes get more powerful the higher a LA the race has and Mind Flayers are LA +8. You are not actually CR 9-11, as a monster PC your CR would translate substantialy higher due to equipment and such, you should be much closer to CR 18 by the end of it. Also you may consider extending the telepathy to 1000ft, match up with the Paragon Mind Flayer from ELH somewhat.

 

[Deaths_Fist]

Its looking pretty good. I say you should include a +2 to Mind Blast DC every level, I say this because Paragon classes get more powerful the higher a LA the race has and Mind Flayers are LA +8. You are not actually CR 9-11, as a monster PC your CR would translate substantialy higher due to equipment and such, you should be much closer to CR 18 by the end of it. Also you may consider extending the telepathy to 1000ft, match up with the Paragon Mind Flayer from ELH somewhat.

Whoa! I think you've got the wrong "paragon" in mind. I certainly don't want to give it that kind of power. And while this class, if used by a player, would in fact be in the level 16-18 range, keep in mind that this same class can be used by a DM wishing to advance a mind flayer for use against his players, so the challenges of CRs 9-11 have to be kept in mind. The trick with this must be to keep the power levels appropriate for both CRs 9-11 and levels 16-18.

As to the +2 DC boost per level, that's WAY out of the "balanced" arena if you ask me. Statistics-wise, let me break it down for you. Mind Blast is a spell-like ability the equivalent of a 4th-level spell, with a DC of 14+cha mod. A mind flayer character with an 18 starting charisma has a 24 after the +6 racial bonus. At 16th level they can easily afford a +6 cha cloak, bringing it to 30 with a final DC of 24. Pretty standard compared to a dedicated 16th-level wizard's 4th-level spell DCs. (18 start plus, say, +2 racial, +4 for levels, +6 item = 30 for a +10 modifier, DC = 24) and let's say they take the ability focus feat for another +2 to the DC (equivalent to spell focus and greater spell focus, if a bit cheaper, total DC 26). Already, mind flayers can take the Boost Spell-Like Ability feat from BoVD for another +2 3/day, putting them ahead of the level curve if they want, and you want to give them another +2 every level, ON TOP OF the stat boosts for this paragon class? I don't think so. It quickly escalates the DC of that ability far beyond even 9th-level spells. Hopefully you can see my reasoning there. I think it gives a nice boost as-is without being too powerful for a dedicated specialist.

 

[dvvega]

How's that look so far? Since I'm biased it looks perfect

D

 

[Deaths_Fist]

How's that look so far? Since I'm biased it looks perfect

Heh, thanks. I'm a bit biased too but I think it'll work well enough. I think I'll flesh it out fluff-wise and post the whole thing in another thread sometime soon. Feel free to use what I've got here in the meantime.