Help creating Lizardfolk Barbarian1/Druid8

[Ridley's Cohort]

Heh, drop the barb1 and go druid9 and add in a few (their expensive) infusions of animal growth for the initial encounter...

How can any DM resist the potential fun of using some/any of these spells against the party:
Animal Growth
Awaken
Call Lightning Storm
Insect Plague
Transmute Rock to Mud/Mud to Rock
Tree Stride

OTOH, I like the style of a Bar1/DruidX. The Rage is a nice touch. The movement doesn't matter. This Druid will be Swampland Striding (made up variant of Woodland Stride) through the muck while the PCs are moving at half.

 

[Kalendraf]

If the druid is going to join the fun and attack in wildshape, then the Barb1/DruidX version is probably the way to go. On the other hand, if they want to sit back and be primarily just a spellcaster, albeit a wildshaped one, then the pure druid version is clearly better. The DM just needs to decide which method seems like a more interesting challenge for his or her party.

 

[Nail]

The druid dives in the water and shifts to a fish or snake (something small + innocuous) and dives to the deepest/farthest point away from the enemy.

Problems:

• If the enemy PCs can't see the druid...the druid can't see the enemy PCs. It works both ways, you know.
• Can't see far enough away to target PCs with spells.
• Can't see far enough to be able to direct your SNA creatures to attack. ..So these uber-buffed SNAs just sit there, next to the druid.
• Druid can only Wildshape into a size Small creature...and those are actually quite big, and far from "innocuous". Check out the animal listing in the MM. A pretty short list, really.
• In any event, you'd better allow the PCs Spot (to notice Druid) and Spellcraft (to detect SNA, etc) checks, where appropriate.

After a short time of this sort of "fun" the PCs would get the hang of it.

Natural spell to SNA several creatures and buff them w/ previously mentioned spells (MoW + Complete Divine GREAT resources here...). Repeat once per hour. Have previously created infusions (MoW) for summon spells and for buff spells.

...and if said druid did so, he'd rapidly be out of spells. Instead of being a fearsome foe...he'd be a sitting duck. Quack!!!

Realistically he's got limited slots for SNA + buffs: 4-2nd, 4-3rd, 3-4th spells....and he just might wanna save a bit of that in reserve, for when things really get hairy...or is that "scaly"?

As for the Infusions: These cost money to create. Be sure to include that cost in his allowed gear wealth. Although 12,000gp (9th lvl NPC) may *seem* like a lot, it's not. This supposedly clever Lizardman druid is not "swimming in Infusions".

BTW: Infusions have the same activation (spell completion) as scrolls, nicht wahr?

Use plant growth on the algae/water plants to make total cover for you and your pets. Every hour, your pets (crocs, alligators, komodos, snakes, etc.) attack from total cover = surprise round.

Except that self same cover from Plant Growth limits their movement as well. That's liable to be a big problem, as PCs are generally more moble than animals. YMMV.

Moreover, the cover limits where the druid can place his spells...again.

Finally, Plant Growth allows the PCs a chance to detect that a druid is in the area: Spellcraft checks. They'll quickly know what they're up against.

About the third or fourth hour when a horde of crocs with + 12-16 str have attacked from total cover for a surprise round and are apparently being directed....

Poetic? Yes.

Possible given the RAW? No. Sorry, no croc hordes. The SNA III is necessary to get 1d3 normal sized croc at a time, and a SNA IV gets you 1 giant croc. Meaning he could have several crocs...but no hordes. Especially not if he wants to do this 3 or 4 times.

Did I mention that one (yep, count 'em => 1) 1st level spell could make this druid's tactic completely flop? Completely.

Still, it's a nice idea.

Well, lets just say I hope you post back with what you did and how the party handles it, because I for one would be extremely interested

Me too!

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

Oh ye of little faith (FYI - KOMODO DRAGONS ~=~ MONITOR LIZARDS in MM)

Nicely written post btw - I have to admit I do wax poetic...

However, to refute some of your fairly astute points for the sake of future NPC druids:

Diving for cover (and looking innocent)
-an archer fish sees out of the water just fine...
-an alligator or crocodile (granted not innocuous) can be almost completely invisible.
-other small creatures - gm's discretion - don't limit yourself to the imaginations/constraints of the authors (i.e. the short list in the MM)
-You can share eyesight with other creatures via spells...
-other, more imaginative solutions to the sighting issue...
-No sight required to direct SNA friends - joist point 'em in the right direction...
-No PC spot need be allowed under certain circumstances, or even if it is - allow with severe penalties... and spellcraft?? Since when could a wizard recognize a fish casting call lightning??? At least add a penalty



Spellcasting:
-sure he's limited on spells, even granting bonus spells from high wisdom...
-with swamp stride, things aren't going to get hairy very fast at all, unless he makes some serious mistakes...
-Sure infusions cost money to create... that money buys herbs, that MoW says the Druid can find for free with a skill check...
-12,000 gp? How much for a 2nd level spell? 12.5 * 2 * 3 * /5 = 12.5 * 3 = 37.5 gp... That's rather a LOT of 2nd level spells, such as BS, CG, AS, Snake Swiftness Mass, etc. Not mentioning all the SNA II's you could cast...
-and yes, infusions have the same standard action activation as most magic items (i.e. scrolls) - difference is, the druid can 'eat' them to activate them...


Plant Growth:
-Use the plant growth to enhance the algae, toadstools, etc. on the surface of the water... no spellcraft check allowed, requires some sense of a spell being cast... Spot checks to notice the increase of the plants? Cast plant growth -before- they get there....
-sure plant growth will impede the PC's... but toadstools/thick algae isn't going to slow down a croc or an alligator or a snake...
-It's the cover that the druid is targeting, so how is it limiting him??


And finally:

"Poetic? Yes." - Hell yeah... That's me - cinematic, and more worried about the description than the rule

"Possible given the RAW? No. Sorry, no croc hordes. The SNA III is necessary to get 1d3 normal sized croc at a time, and a SNA IV gets you 1 giant croc. Meaning he could have several crocs...but no hordes. Especially not if he wants to do this 3 or 4 times."

It gets easier with the infusions, but true - it's nay a horde. Poetic again! Nonetheless, he could conceivably have 2 or 3 d3 Crocs + Buffs + Animal Growth.

"Did I mention that one (yep, count 'em => 1) 1st level spell could make this druid's tactic completely flop? Completely." Really? Which one?

I tend to speak in more 'poetic' terms (your word usage, not mine) than most, but I find that enthusiasm helps me describe things in a more exciting way when I GM.

I also tend to heavily use creative licensing when drafting tactical advice to people - it's far more important to me to juice up their own creativity than to tell them how to do something.

And please, tell me you're not one of those 'So it is written, so mote it be!' types that think the rules are sacrosanct and non-expandable?? That's what the majority of your post came across as - no offense, I'm gaming with several people of that type on a weekly basis

However, if that is you're feeling, I'll not waste our times preaching my opposing point of view and get back on topic here ....

 

[Eye Tyrant]

I think I/we can devise a truly heinous NPC/Encounter if you guys know a little more about the party. The average level will be 12 by the time they get there. I think I should increase the Lizardfolk to Barbarian1/Druid9 (ECL 11). I have also come up with a rough-draft for my random encounters which is added at the bottom. Also, keep in mind they still have a Mature Adult Black Dragon to look forward to and this guy will most likely retreat to aid her in her lair once the PCs make their way there (if he doesn't get killed first).

Eysredd: Illuskan Wizard from Icewind Dale in The North (Arctic Adaptation Regional Feat). (wants to be an Archmage)
Wizard11 (Evoker; Prohibited Schools: Illusion, Enchantment)
HP: 56
AC: 17 (+3 Dex, +2 Amulet, +2 Ring) Touch 17, Flat-footed 14
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 19, Wis 16, Cha 11
Skills (w/ ranks): Concentration 13, Craft: Metalwork 10, Craft: Alchemy 7, Knowledge: Arcane 10, Knowledge: Planes 8, Knowledge: Dungeoneering 9, Knowledge: Undead 6, Listen 7, Move Silently 8, Spellcraft 20, Spot 7
Feats: Arctic Adaptation*, Improved Initiative, Skill Focus: Spellcraft, Spell Focus: Evocation, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, Spell Focus: Abjuration, Scribe Scroll*, Summon Familiar*, Maximize Spell, Empower Spell,
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60'*, Read Magic*, Detect Magic*
Saves: Fort 5+2, Ref+2, Will 7+2 *Cloak of Resistance +2
Initiative: 7
Speed: 30'
BAB/Grapple: +5/+7
Attack: Quarterstaff 8 (1d4+3/x2) melee, MW Lt Crossbow 9 (1d6/19-20x2) ranged, Spells
Full Attack: As Attack; Spells
Space/Reach: 5'/5'
Gear: Quarterstaff +1 Icy Burst (additional frost damage on Critical Hit), Dagger +2, MW Lt Crossbow, Amulet of Natural Armor +2, Ring of Protection +2, Explorer's Outfit, Robes, Thunderstone x2, Tindertwig x2, Rations x10, Waterskin
Potions: Cat's Grace
Scrolls: Arcane Sight, Fireshield
Coin: 6,000 gp
Spells per Day: 4/4+1/4+1/4+1/3+1/2/1 Spell Save DC: 14 + spell level (+2 to Evocation and +1 Abjuration)
Spellbook - Oth lvl: Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Disrupt Undead, Light, Message, Ray of Frost, Read Magic, Resistance, Touch of Fatigue 1st lvl: Lesser Acid Orb*, Burning Hands, Lesser Fire Orb*, Identify, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Protection from Evil, Shocking Grasp 2nd lvl: Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Darkvision, Flaming Sphere, Knock, Protection from Arrows, Repair Moderate Damage*, Spectral Hand, Spider Climb 3rd lvl: Dispel Magic, Fireball, Flame Arrow, Lightning Bolt, Magic Circle Against Evil, Summon Monster III, Vampiric Touch 4th lvl: Blast of Flame*, Fire Shield, Ice Storm, Polymorph, Remove Curse, Stoneskin 5th lvl: Arc of Lightning*, Cone of Cold, Greater Fireburst*, Permanency, Rary's Telepathic Bond, Teleport 6th lvl: Analyze Dweomer, Chain Lightning
* Miniatures Handbook

Morloc: Half-Orc Priest of Tempus raised in the Spine of the World and Luskan in The North (Resist Poison Regional Feat)
Cleric11 (Tempus)
HP: 86
AC: 19 (+2 Dex, +5 Chain Shirt, +2 Bracers) Touch 12, Flat-footed 17
Abilities: Str18, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 18, Cha 11
Skills (w/ ranks): Concentration 14, Diplomacy 2, Heal 7, Intimidate 6, Knowledge: Religion 8, Knowledge: Undead 5, Knowledge: History 8, Knowledge: Dungeoneering 4, Move Silently 4, Sense Motive 6, Spellcraft 5
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus: Great Axe, Maximize Spell
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60’, Orc Blood
Saves: Fort 10, Ref 5, Will 10
Initiative: 6
Speed: 30’
BAB/Grapple: 8/12
Attack: +2 Great Axe 15 (1d12+6/x3) melee, MW Flail 13 (1d8+4/x2) melee, MW Heavy Crossbow 11 (1d10/19-20x2) ranged
Full Attack: +2 Great Axe 15/10 (1d12+6/x3), MW Flail 13/8 (1d8+4/x2)
Space/Reach: 5’/5’
Gear: +2 Great Axe Defending, Chain Shirt +1 Light Fortification, Bracers of Armor +2, MW Flail, MW Heavy Crossbow, Smokestick, Alchemical Fire, Thunderstone x2, Explorer’s Outfit, Healer’s Kit, Rations x10, Waterskin
Potions: CLW x3, CMW x2
Scrolls:
Coin: 6,000 gp
Spells per Day: 6/5+1/4+1/4+1/3/2/1
Domains: Strength, War

Dank Lemongrass: Half-Elf Ranger raised by the Wood Elves of The High Forest (Forester Regional Feat). (wants to be a Horizon Walker)
Ranger11 (Shaundakul)
HP: 89
AC: 19 (20 w/ 2 Wpns), (+3 Dex, +6 Chain Shirt, +1 Two Wpn Defense) Touch 13, Flat-footed 16
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 12
Skills (w/ ranks): Concentration 11, Handle Animal 10, Heal 11, Hide 13, Knowledge: Dungeoneering 12, Knowledge: Geography 10, Knowledge: Nature 10, Search 7, Spot 15, Survival 17
Feats: Endurance*, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, Track*, Two Weapon Fighting*, Improved Two Weapon Fighting*, Greater Two Weapon Fighting*, Weapon Focus: Shortsword
Special Qualities: Immunity to Sleep spells/magic, Low-light vision, Elven Blood, Favored Enemies (Abberation +4, Undead +4, Construct +2), Evasion*, Track*, Combat Mastery, Wild Empathy*, Endurance*, Animal Companion*, Woodland Stride*, Swift Tracker*
Saves: Fort 9, Ref 10 (Evasion), Wis 6
Initiative: 7
Speed: 30’
BAB/Grapple: 11/14
Attack: +2 Shortsword 16 (1d6+6/18-20x2) melee, MW Composite Longbow 15 (1d8+4/x3) ranged
Full Attack: +2 Shortsword 16/11/6 (1d6+6/18-20x2) melee AND +1 Shortsword 15/10/5 (1d6+5/18-20x2) melee
Space/Reach: 5’/5’
Gear: +2 Shortsword of Spell Storing (1 spell up to 3rd lvl), +1 Shortsword Undead Bane (+2 vs Undead +2d6dmg), +2 Mithral Chain Shirt, Quaal’s Feather Token (Swan Boat), MW Composite Longbow, Hunting Knife, Healer’s Kit, Thunderstone x2, Tanglefoot Bag x2, Antitoxin x2, 50’ Silk Rope, Tnidertwig x10, Torch x3, Map Case, Ink/Pen x2, Parchment x10, Holy Water x4
Scrolls: Hold Person, Water Breathing, Divine Favor
Coin: 100 pp, 500 gp, Sapphire (350 gp)
Spells per Day: 1+1/1+1/+1

Bashtor Rockfist: Tethyrian Human Fighter from Suzail, Cormyr (Foe Hunter: Goblinoid Regional Feat). Former soldier in the standing army of Cormyr. Served under Alustriel as mercenary, still has very loose ties to her (strictly professional). (wants to be a Purple Dragon Knight)
Fighter11
HP: 128
AC: 22 (+3 Dex, +6 Breastplate, +1 Shield, +2 Bracers) Touch 13 Flat-footed 19
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 13
Skills (w/ ranks): Balance 3, Climb 7, Concentration 9, Craft: Weaponsmith 2, Diplomacy 6, Intimidate 9, Jump 9, Knowledge: Dungeoneering 2, Ride 7, Spot 5
Feats: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Improved Initiative, Improved Shield Bash, Weapon Focus: Longsword, Weapon Specialization: Longsword
Saves: Fort 11, Ref 6, Will 5
Initiative: 7
Speed: 30'
BAB/Grapple: 11/15
Attack: Flame Tongue 18 (1d8+7/19-20x2) melee, MW Silver Dagger 16 (1d4+4/19-20x2) melee, MW Heavy Crossbow 15 (1d10+1/19-20x2) ranged
Full Attack: Flame Tongue 18/13/8 (1d8+7/19-20x2) melee, or MW Silver Dagger 16/11/6 (1d4+4/19-20x2) melee
Space/Reach: 5’/5’
Gear: Flame Tongue, +1 Breast Plate, +2 Bracers of Natural Armor, MW “Heavy” Mithral Shield, MW Heavy Crossbow, MW Silver Dagger, Heward’s Handy Haversack, Flint/Steel, Grappling Hook, 100’ Trollgut Rope, 50’ Silk Rope, Rations x10, Everburning Torch
Potions: Cat’s Grace, Bless


Shishomi: Rokugan Human female (Given Cosmopolitan as Regional Feat)
Ninja3/Monk2/Assassin7
HP: 98
AC: 21 (+4 Dex, +4 Armor, +3 Wis) Touch 18, Flat-footed 17
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 19, Con 16, Int 20, Wis 16, Cha 18
Skills (w/ ranks): Bluff 15, Decipher Script 9, Diplomacy 9, Disable Device 20, Disguise 8, Gather Information 14, Hide 18, Jump 12, Listen 13, Move Silently 14, Open Lock 8, Search 13, Sense Motive 12, Spot 18, Tumble 14, Use Magic Device 13
Feats: Cosmopolitan*, Combat Reflexes, Quick Draw, Improved Feint, Arcane Strike, Blind Fight, Spring Attack
Saves: Fort 8, Ref 12, Will 11
Initiative: +8
Speed: 30’ (60’ w/ boots)
BAB/Grapple: 9/11
Attack: +1 Adamantine Ninja-To 12 (1d6+3/19-20x2) melee
Full Attack: +1 Adamantine Ninja-To 12/7 (1d6+3/19-20x2) melee
Space/Reach: 5’/5’
Gear: +1 Adamantine Ninja-To “Dragon's Claw” (+1 to Assassin’s Death Attack and d8 Sneak Attack Damage), Octavian Armbands of Defense (+4 Armor Bonus, Light Fortification 25% chance to ignore crits), Boots of Striding and Springing, Wand of CLW x37, Backpack, Chalk x7, Fishnet 15’, Flint & Steel, Crowbar, Spyglass, Merchant’s Scale, Climber’s Kit, Disguise Kit, Anti-venom x5, Tindertwigs x30 in mithral case, MW Bandoleer (holds 12 items), Hammock, 3 Flasks Brandy, Waterproof Insect Netting, Marbles x40, MW Potion Belt (holds 10 potions), MW Thieves Tools, Scroll Organizer, Scent Breaker x6, Herbs narootis,
Potions:
Scrolls:
Spells Known: 4/4/3/2 1st lvl: Feather Fall, Mage Armor, True Strike, Ghost Sound 2nd lvl: Alter Self, Invisibility, Spider Climb, Pass w/o Trace, Bull’s Strength, Fox’s Cunning, 3rd lvl: Deeper Darkness, Misdirection, Non-Detection 4th lvl: Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement

Random Encounter Table 1d20 (roll of 1 on d10 indicates encounter)

1-2 Crocodiles
3-4 Giant Constrictor Snakes
5-6 Dinosaur (Elasmosaurus or Deinonychus)
7-8 Dark Tree
9-10 Swarm (Wasps or Vipers) Leeches?
11-12 Lizardfolk Hunting Party
13-14 Swamp Gas
15-16 Six-Headed Pyrohydra
17-18 Shambling Mound
19-20 Assassin Vines

 

[ForceUser]

So I'm running my party through the Lizard Marsh soon and the obligatory Black Dragon that lairs in the heart of the swamp has a Lizardfolk minion Barbarian1/Druid8, leader of the local tribe. Took the level in Barbarian for the Rage 1/day and the +10' to speed. With the 8 levels in Druid he can Wildshape into a Large critter (probably a gator) 3/day. Animal Companion yet to be decided.

Some questions:

The +10' speed carries over to the Wildshape form, right?

Animal Companion? Any ideas on this?

Should I try for a combat oriented Druid? He's gonna have a huge advantage due to terrain.

Any ideas for the tribal followers (who by the way, have enslaved a group of Wild-Elf nomads)?

Sounds like you want to make this fellow a Nature's Warrior prestige class from Complete Warrior. Keep in mind, however, that a lizardfolk is equivalent to a 3rd-level PC (2d8 racial HD +1 level adjustment). Thus, a Bbn1/Dru 8 lizardfolk is actually a 12th level character.

I played an orc Bbn 1/Druid 7/Nature's Warrior 1, and he was ferocious in battle! A real terror when he shifted to dire ape form, considering party buffs, self buffs, reach and rend!

 

[mmu1]

1. A Barbarian 1 / Druid 9 Lizardman is ECL 13, not 11 - unless it doesn't have the two racial HD, or something.

2. Do you specifically intend to kill party members? Because if you take even a fraction of the advice in this thread, someone is definitely going to die. For example, no one in your party has a chance of surviving an attack by an animal companion with +21 on its grapple check. (they'll be dead from bite damage long before drowning is an issue, unless the rest of the party manages to kill the gator before the PC is dragged under)

3. Most of the ideas presented so far largely amount to making sure the PCs are put into a situation which they have no way of fighting against - which doesn't strike me as being fun. It's easy to kill off a party with a powerful druid in his terrain of choice, but that's not the point of the game.

I think they'd be challenged enough if you just threw the druid and his animal companion at them in a fairly straightforward fight in which he used his spells to hamper and trap the PCs and used the fact he can move through water to keep them from all wailing on him at once - if you want to get really nasty and sneaky, I'd say you have to reduce the power level some or you'll have a TPK on your hands.

BTW, I just have to ask - how did the fighter manage to get 96 hp out of 100hp possible over 10 levels? (The guy with 128hp and 14 CON)

 

[Sejs]

Like I said, Mmu:

Fights in watery environments against indigenous opponents go badly for PCs.


It's more work to -not- kill PCs in a watery environment than it is to kill them. If you want to pull your punches the real trick lies in not making it seem like you went soft on 'em just to be nice.

 

[Eye Tyrant]

1. A Barbarian 1 / Druid 9 Lizardman is ECL 13, not 11 - unless it doesn't have the two racial HD, or something.



BTW, I just have to ask - how did the fighter manage to get 96 hp out of 100hp possible over 10 levels? (The guy with 128hp and 14 CON)

1. Yes that was my mistake on the ECL, forgot the 2HD

... and the stats for Bashtor were exactly like Dank's D'oh! Looks like I was looking at the wrong sheet for ability scores. Corrected now (the actual PC sheet confirms I need to focus )

 

[Eye Tyrant]

2. Do you specifically intend to kill party members? Because if you take even a fraction of the advice in this thread, someone is definitely going to die. For example, no one in your party has a chance of surviving an attack by an animal companion with +21 on its grapple check. (they'll be dead from bite damage long before drowning is an issue, unless the rest of the party manages to kill the gator before the PC is dragged under)

3. Most of the ideas presented so far largely amount to making sure the PCs are put into a situation which they have no way of fighting against - which doesn't strike me as being fun. It's easy to kill off a party with a powerful druid in his terrain of choice, but that's not the point of the game.

I think they'd be challenged enough if you just threw the druid and his animal companion at them in a fairly straightforward fight in which he used his spells to hamper and trap the PCs and used the fact he can move through water to keep them from all wailing on him at once - if you want to get really nasty and sneaky, I'd say you have to reduce the power level some or you'll have a TPK on your hands.

I agree that if I want to, I can make this truly deadly. I want this to be a dragon hunt they wont soon forget, to be honest. I really doubt that I have the energy to stat out 100 super creepy buffed-out swamp critters for multiple castings of Summon NAs. But one group of critters is feasible I think. Crocodiles will have the advantage in the water, they are supposed to, and the PCs realize they are going into a difficult terrain that is the natural environment for lots of other nasties. Once they reach the center of the swamp and find the bizarre ancient ruins is when the fireworks go off

I dont want a TPK but the PCs know that the area is dragon territory, and if they choose to go into the swamp after the Earthstone (a gem that activates a portal to either Undermountain or Eberron, not sure which yet), then they better go prepared. That's not too much to expect is it?