Help-DMed Myself Into Corner

varden

First Post
The party is six encounters from fighting the Boss monster at the end of the campaign.

The Bad Guys are the ones who got the Boss resurrected in the first place, so they want to see him win; but - they also have a vendetta against one of characters.

The Party's winning, the Bad Guys are losing and I decide that I'd like to sow some discord in the party so I have the Bad Guys make the Character an offer:

"Give yourself up to us, and we'll step aside when it comes time for the party to attack the Boss."

So here I am, 2 weeks from my next game, and I'm not sure what to do. Double cross the PCs? Just let the Boss go unprotected? What are the Bad Guys going to do to the character anyway? Your thoughts?
 
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Well, to begin with, I hope you can appreciate now that you should always RP NPCs on the basis of their reasonable motivations - not on the basis of how you hope their actions might enhance the story.

So, the trick here now is to come up with a reasonable motivation for why the NPC bad guys are now abandoning their plan in a particular way for a particular PC, with the understanding that double crossing the PC or in anyway going back on the offer is the least interesting and imaginative option.

Second, I honestly can't understand why a PC that is winning agrees to put himself in the power of an enemy NPC with as little assurance as the NPCs seem to have given him. Why in the world would a PC go along with that idea in the first place? What does the PC think is going to happen? So what is the PC motive here? What is the PC's upside?

And I can't really answer the question of what motivated the offer without knowing more about your NPCs larger goals. So presumably the bad guys want to accomplish something and presumably they thought they could do so by resurrecting a BBEG. If they are now betraying that BBEG, it's likely because they don't think he can do the job he was resurrected for.

Do they think the PC can? Has this whole thing with resurrecting the BBEG simply been a wheel in a larger plan that perhaps unraveled some time ago. Maybe they resurrected the BBEG to do a job that he then refused to do (or proved incapable of doing), and they couldn't get rid of him. Perhaps the whole point of the BBEG was, "You can rule the world if you help us get us the golden dingus.", and the BBEG guy said, "Do you think me a fool. I don't need your permission to rule the world, and if I gave you the golden dingus ruling the world would be irrelevant compared to the awesome power you would have."

It seems to me that the PC in accepting the offer is betraying the rest of the party. Sure, the bad guys are standing down, but they are asking the PC to effectively stand down as well. I don't get that even more than I don't get the NPCs.
 

Well, to begin with, I hope you can appreciate now that you should always RP NPCs on the basis of their reasonable motivations - not on the basis of how you hope their actions might enhance the story.

Absolutes (like "always") are often not as absolute as people claim. The NPCs are there, originally and ultimately, to provide actions that enhance the story. So, "How will this be a better story?" is a legitimate question to ask. Reasonable motivations often end in boring stories, and we may need to apply unreasonable motivations to make them interesting.

But, we don't have to do that here.

BBEG gets ressurected by Bag Guy Organization (the BGO).
BGO has it in for one of the PCs.

Does the BGO not trust that the BBEG can grind the PCs up and spit them out? They think the BBEG is going to fail, even with the BGO's help?

If the BGO doesn't trust the BBEG's ability, nor fear his reprisal, then yes, the BGO makes their offer. If the PC takes them up on it, sure, they stand aside. This makes plenty of sense - if they think the BBEG is going to fail anyway, this gets the BGO their revenge, and out of the fight. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I don't see how this sows discord, though, except in the, "No, Joe, don't sacrifice yourself for us!" way. From Joe's point of view, if he can get the BGO out of the way, he's helping his friends.

What does the BGO do with the PC? We have no clue - you've not told us anything about them. Are they an old ladies' knitting circle, necromancers, or what*? Why do they hate the PC so much?




*These are not mutually exclusive, but you get the idea.
 

Absolutes (like "always") are often not as absolute as people claim. The NPCs are there, originally and ultimately, to provide actions that enhance the story. So, "How will this be a better story?" is a legitimate question to ask. Reasonable motivations often end in boring stories, and we may need to apply unreasonable motivations to make them interesting.

In which case we have just bad and lazy writing which defeats any interest your plot point might have added. Yes it is reasonable to ask, "How will this be a better story?" But too often writers in any medium, whether movies, novels, video games, or an RPG, have an idea where they want to go but no clear picture of how to get there. The result is NPCs (or protagonists!) jumping through hoops of stupid or arbitrary because "plot" or "reasons", and not for any clear purpose. You may get away with it occasionally, but generally these moments jar the audiences suspension of disbelief, emersion, and sympathy for the characters.

For example, often action adventure movies require that the hero overcome the villain. To do this, they often require that the villain be utterly stupid in a number of (now trite, predictable) ways, so that they throw away their advantage doing something stupid and allow the hero to win. This reduces the stature of the hero, and render a dramatic situation slapstick comedy subject to being mocked. An extreme case of this is probably 'Cobra Commander' from the '80's GI Joe, who is almost entirely guaranteed to undermine any chance of victory he may have in every single episode for reasons that are often inexplicable - even a moron would have a hard time being so stupid consistently. A similar situation occurs with Azmodan in Act III of Diablo III.

Alternately, and this is increasingly common in summer blockbusters, the writer may have this idea for a spectacular special effects set piece, but no clear idea why it should occur. Well, logic be darned, the needs of the CGI spectacle must come first! The results can be entertaining scenes in bad stories. Without a hundred million dollar budget for visual spectacle, I'd focus on the story.

I hold that you want to reduce the freezer logic in your story as much as possible. The more obviously things in your story happen purely to serve the story, the more contrived your events are, the more unlikely your events are, the less reasonable the motivations of the characters seem to be, then the less well you've done your story. The goal of the writer in most cases is to recede from the foreground, so that his hand on events is not repeatedly being observed. The characters themselves must live.

In this case, "How can I make a better story?", is answered by, "Make your NPCs have interesting motives."

And if it is a case of, "The story is paramount.", there really aren't a lot of ways to make the case of the BGO has it personally in for the PC interesting and satisfying to the audience. In order of the PC's sacrifice to be meaningful we have to establish before this scene that if the BGO helps the BBEG, they are unbeatable and this really is 'the only way'. If there is any other circumstance, then this diminishes the NPC or the PC, and that in turn diminishes the other. If the PC turns the tables on the BGO and wins, the BGO now looks foolish. If the BGO turns the tables on the PC, and double crosses the party, the PC looks foolish. Either diminishes the story.

There are probably more interesting ways to go with the opposite - the BGO actually cares for the PC and thinks the BBEG is invincible and is trying to protect the PC or subvert them to form a third front. Some variation of "Luke, I am your father." or "Darling, I have always loved you." Of course, that requires a bit more set up that a spur of the moment act like this probably has had. Or course, "I've always hated you", equally requires a personal relationship exist between the PC and the NPC before that works as well. The previously undisclosed personal vendetta of mook #5 in scene #17 isn't that interesting.

I think in general, if a PC makes a sacrifice, then the unprotected BBEG is expected. The big question becomes, "Why?" The BGO needs some legitimate reason for throwing away a chance at victory, and some reason to believe that after the BBEG goes down they be able to escape the rest of the parties vengeance.
 

Is there a compelling reason why the resurrected Boss would completely trust the Bad Guys? Why wouldn't the Boss expect some double-crossing and have some other associates secretly in his corner?
 

What does the BGO do with the PC? We have no clue - you've not told us anything about them. Are they an old ladies' knitting circle, necromancers, or what*? Why do they hate the PC so much?

The BGO are the Fomorians at the end of King of the Trollhaunt Warrens.

The character is an infernal-pact warlock that was formerly a fey-pact warlock. I thought it'd be cool if the fomorians had been the ones who granted his fey pact. They're furious with him for turning traitor, and warned him that "... there are no ex-warlocks!"

*The Knecromancers? The Knit-romancers?
 

Thanks everyone!

I've decided that the Bad Guys' Leader hates the PC, and will make an example out of him by simply doing a one-on-one combat with him in front of all his followers, where he mathematically has no chance of losing - he will kill the PC!

Don't worry; this PC has a way of out-thinking me at the table and may surprise us.

The resurrected Boss Monster does have some help in the form of ghostly echoes of himself - who are not under the control of the Bad Guys - that will make that combat a little harder on the Party, just so that battle isn't an anti-climax.

The Bad Guys Leader is so short-sighted that he has full confidence in the Boss Monster winning, even though we all know the Party should be able to defeat the Boss. Also, the Leader's obsession with the PC has alienated his Number 2 [maybe his own daughter] and she will either attack him to take over his position, or go after the PCs, depending on what makes for a more interesting story.

Finally, the Magic Thing that resurrected the Boss Monster can also be used to resurrect the PC if needed.

The game is Saturday, will let you all know how it turns out.
 

The Bad Guys Leader is so short-sighted that he has full confidence in the Boss Monster winning, even though we all know the Party should be able to defeat the Boss. Also, the Leader's obsession with the PC has alienated his Number 2 [maybe his own daughter] and she will either attack him to take over his position, or go after the PCs, depending on what makes for a more interesting story.

If the #2 is interested in taking out #1, it seems like the PC's duel with #1 is the perfect opportunity. That should be a hook for the PC to consider using to get #2 to help him out and thus balance the odds in the fight.
 

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