Help ! How can I challenge the Druid ?...

[bret]

Given what you wrote of the party, the Druid is the fighter of the party.

The other two are a Sorcerer and a Wizard who have a little bit of some other class. They are mostly arcane spellcasters, regardless of their attributes.

You might make him have to act like a front line fighter. Give him a situation where he has to protect the mages long enough for them to do something. The Improved Invisibility is an idea if the Druid doesn't have Wolf companions.

If the rogue/sorcerer is the type to mix it up in melee, you might have him look at the Dragon Disciple PrC in T&B. It would improve his combat abilities.

If the fighter/wizard is the type to mix it up in melee, you migth want to point out the SpellBlade PrC in T&B. This is basically a Fi/Wiz multiclass who can wear armor.


By the way, who is casting that haste on the druid? If the druid wasn't doing a good job of protecting me, I would start using the haste spell on myself instead. A hasted sorcerer can dump a lot of spells in a short time.

 

[Pielorinho]

A couple of ideas:

That shillelagh he's using is just crying out for a sunder. If he doesn't carry a spare with him, then he may become suddenly not-so-nasty-after-all.

A targeted dispel on him would probably hurt him a lot, as it hurts any magical fighter. By one reading of dispel (which seems to be what the sage recommends, according to another thread), a person's equipment counts as part of that person for the purposes of dispel magic. This means that it's reasonably protected against an area dispel, but vulnerable to a targeted dispel.

Dispel is also, I believe, effective against a wildshaped druid. End that supernatural effect! Especially fun if he's flying when the wildshape is dispelled....


Daniel

 

[Ziggy]

Hi again!

Lots of good ides from other posters here, just want to build on a few points already postes by others:

- Make him the frontline fighter . This is the most basic, but also the most effective tactic. None of the other characters are any good in hand to hand, so logically, the druid must take the brunt of these attacks. It's not very hard to find monsters that challenge in a straight hand-to-hand (look for reach, high strenght, two-handed weapons a.s.o. If you don't mind a bit of cheese, a half-dragon ogre with some class-levels will kick his a**).

- Use dispel magic . A lot of his fighting ability comes from magic, a few dispels will take him down to more mundane levels.

- Surprise him Use hit-and-run with improved invisibility. Make him rage, and then withdraw. Hit them again when his rage has passed.

.Ziggy

 

[KnowTheToe]

Make him the front line fighter can't be said enough. I am playing a druid and often due to absenteeism am the stongest fighter. I have gotten my ass kicked several times and would be dead if not for a giving gm.

 

[Chacal]

Wow !
Thanks for all these good answers.

Some clarifications about the party:
---------------------------------
Druids reflex saves : 5
Wiz reflex saves : 3
Given the HP difference, I will kill the Wiz before I hurt severly the druid.

None of them has a way to see Inv. They didn't need it yet. But they will soon

The sorc/rogue isn't very good in melee (low HP, low damage , but Weap finesse helps its attack) and is more oriented towards a Arcane trickster-like PrC (As soon as we find a way to balance this class, but it's another topic).

The Wiz/Fighter will probably take some spellsword levels.

A typical fight begins with
-Imp.Int sorc cast hast on him, then on Wiz
-Wiz casts shield, and something else
-Druid casts shilelagh

-Sorc cast haste on druid, shield on him
-wiz is the more versatile so it does some stuff (either fighting or fireball or web ...)
-Druid casts spikes, rages and fight

So yes, he's the frontline fighter !
--------------------------------

All the ideas about ranged attacks, flying combat (how could I forgot the flyby attack ?) will be implemented ASAP !

Sundering the shilelagh is just brilliant ! I will try not to overuse this tactic but I must try it

A targetted dispel is nasty, too

I'll also try to use the retreat tactic more efficiently to let the rage wear off.

Thanks for all your answers. I must refrain from using too many of them now !



Chacal

 

[I'm A Banana]

A few things to remember:

Invisibility doesn't help much, if at all, against a druid, or anybody with a familiar. Any sort of improved senses (blindsight or scent), which a LOT of animals have, would help get the general area of the creature, and then one faerie fire later, you've got a big glowing target.

Druids suck arse at ranged attacks. REALLY. They've got a few spells, but jack for weapons (yay! 1d4 ranged damage! I'm cookin' now!)

Wildshape = Flying. Wildshape + Wild Spell feat = Flyer who can still cast spells.

The guy's pretty good at a melee attack, but is not so hot at ranged.

Since the fighter looks more intimidating, think of situations where the druid is the major target. Think assassins who've come to hit the one (but beware the Druid's good Spot), think villains whose main goal is to corrupt or destroy the natural world, think creatures that defy the natural order, especially if other characters don't care too much.

I suppose my group's lucky, though. Two spellcasters, the druid, and a Paladin make for some good rounding, as long as I don't throw locks at them.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

A typical fight begins with
-Imp.Int sorc cast hast on him, then on Wiz
-Wiz casts shield, and something else
-Druid casts shilelagh

-Sorc cast haste on druid, shield on him
-wiz is the more versatile so it does some stuff (either fighting or fireball or web ...)
-Druid casts spikes, rages and fight

So yes, he's the frontline fighter!

First thought; ROGUES!

Rogues (multiples) hose front line fighters - just flank the tree-hugging freak, and watch those HP fall off.

And with heavy pre-casters, its pretty easy to cut them up with an ambush:

multiple rogues, with bows, hidden in ambush - while they pre-cast, the rogues will pepper them (if they win initiative AND surprise them it could hurt a LOT)

Don't forget that once the initial sneak attack frenzy of the ambush is over, some of the rogues at least should ready shots to disrupt the spellcasting...

(remember to challenge the player you DON'T ned to cut up the character - just present situations where the same old routine doesn't guarantee victory)

Anti-Magic fields will mess up their whole day too Make his next opponent in melee be wearing an amulet that cancels all magic in 10', and watch the players' faces...

Slow hoses haste quite well too...

Your main issue is to disrupt their pre-casting if they "always" do it; that alone will make the encounter a challenge. And from the sound of it a lot of the disbalance from the druid is related to those pre-cast spells.

In general, multiple rogues tend to teach people harsh lessons

 

[Darklone]

Hmmm

Some more things occur to me. That standard tactic calls for abuse. I mean, enemies who witnessed it once or more often (do enemies escape?) shall easily start a little ambush, attack for a round with bows and retreat as soon as the enemies get close (Exp retreat stuff and similar things)

Not only rage will wear off, haste too.

Start with 3 archers at 200ft. Give them all those wonderful things like MW arrows and bows, far shot, rapid shot... as soon as the players get close, they turn and run. If the players follow, lead them into an ambush (pit traps, big boulder nets from above, cave ins, ...)

If they don't follow, they lost several of their spells for the day. 10 minutes later: Same procedure as always.

Edit: Forgot something. Lowly devils with darkness cast on themselves or Deeper Darkness. Same as invisible, but better And trying to dispel it does not help much if the devils can recast it as free spelllike ability... Only Daylight would help.

Some lowly henchmen can really waste the day for some specialised and standardised superheroes.

Example: lvl 6 warrior with Expertise, Improved Disarm, Exo weapon prof bastard sword, Dodge... (human) easily bashed my lvl5 halforc barbarian without magical aid. Simply full expertise, fighting defensively, two attacks per round and disarm now and then. With large shield and banded mail, his AC will easily be around 25 or more. Wait till the rage is gone and whip the floor with him.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I would be willing to bet that a good portion of the barbarian druids toughness in combat is via a coupel free rounds of buffing.

There are lots of very useful spells a Druid can take that can really add to their melee combat ability. If this is the case with your PC's druid then make sure to add some surprise encounters that force him into melee immediatly. Without his ability to buff in advance he will find the fights to be much more challenging without risking the rest of the party.

 

[Chacal]

Druids suck arse at ranged attacks. REALLY.

Yes ! I got the message

Wildshape = Flying. Wildshape + Wild Spell feat = Flyer who can still cast spells.

Right but I'm still not sure to allow this feat as it is now. It seems a bit tough...

Since the fighter looks more intimidating, think of situations where the druid is the major target.

I may have overstated this point. After very few rounds, the druid becomes the main target (it's sometimes too late, though).

Originally posted by MonkeyBoy
... ambush ...
... anti magic fields...

The ambush with rogues works very well, and the surprise effect weaken the druid, but it also usually almost kill the 2 others.

I haven't used anti magic fields yet, (these things tend to appear only at higher levels IMC), and I'm afraid it would hurt the others more than the druid.

Originally posted by Darklone
(do enemies escape?)

They usually try, but only one has succeeded to date (sad part is that he's a hundred miles from them and he has lost their trail, but as soon as they come back to a city maybe he'll have his revenge)

archers+ retreat+traps

hmm, good

devils+darkness

The 2 others will be useless against such opponents.

lowly henchmen

I love to use the "normal" types too. It teaches them some humilty


Thanks for all the replies

Chacal