Help! I need a rules-lite super hero RPG

[mikelaff]

I love M&M (as well as supers20) -- but you said "rules-lite".

I can't really argue that either of those are rules-lite with a straight face. Compared to HERO System, sure. But my taxes are also rules-lite by that comparison. (Granted - I don't itemize)

Based on the criteria you've offered - I'm going to offer a second vote for Truth and Justice

I haven't run a long campaign with it. But I've played two sessions with it -- and it was fun and fast. Even character creation was quick and easy (and there aren't many supers systems anywhere that can say that.)

 

[ValhallaGH]

I've been perusing Mutants & Masterminds, but I think there's too much going on there for me to bother with....
Ideally my super hero game would be based on something like true20,

Given the second part, you should reconsider the first part. Because True20 is a clunky version of M&M (I love True20 but I'm just saying what I see).

M&M 2E is one of the smoothest running RPGs I've ever come across. It gets jarring in character creation, with some players coming to the game with preconceptions about mechanics (usually from other systems) or a stubborn unwillingness to try and learn the rules, but is actually pretty simple and fun in play.

Actions* are resolved with d20 + Stuff to hit, and d20 + Stuff to save and resist.

As a GM you only need to learn the rules in use (this goes double for powers). It's nice if your system mastery includes all the powers because you can help PCs use unusual power-choices for the flavor they want, but it ain't necessary. So, learn attack / defense (fairly simple, and I'm sure you're almost there), the save system (really simple, especially for someone that knows True 20), Knockback (damage minus knockback modifier; look at chart on page 70, that's how far people fly), and any powers that get used a lot (use bookmarks until you've learned them, no rush).
Scaling saves are always on the -5 model (-5 is worse, -10 is really worse, -15 is worst). Not all saves scale.

The archetypes in the back of the book are great. I ran some (18) Triad thugs the other night, who had no character sheets; all minions, a +3 attack with light pistols (+3 damage), a 13 Defense with a +2 Toughness (+1 flat-footed), and Fort +X, Ref +3, Will +1. I flipped to the back of the book and noticed that the PL 3 Ninja archetype lined up in most places, so I just used those stats when I didn't already know what I wanted them to have.
Much fun and shooting of PCs was had. Good times.

Most of the book needs to get referenced during character building; outside of that, just look up some mechanic you don't use often (Fearsome Presence, Mind Reading, and the Conditions list and the end of the yellow chapter, for me) when it comes up.


M&M has a lot of crunch, used to create characters. It plays like a rules-light RPG, which is the only way to feel like a superhero game.


Good luck.

*Grapple, physical or mental, is an opposed check. There are a few other opposed checks as well (power nullification, mind reading, power-countering checks). These are fairly rare and very simple; ties go to the biggest bonus. Some powers are Perception Range, or Area Effects, and don't require attack rolls.

 

[pawsplay]

I love M&M (as well as supers20) -- but you said "rules-lite".

I can't really argue that either of those are rules-lite with a straight face. Compared to HERO System, sure. But my taxes are also rules-lite by that comparison. (Granted - I don't itemize)

I wouldn't even say that... less heavy maybe.

 

[Piratecat]

Sure, thanks.

ValhallaGH did a great job laying it out. Here's what I find myself needing to remember as a MnM GM:

- the only part of the system that's a genuine pain in the ass is character creation. Luckily, spreadsheets help with that, and it's a player-only thing. You don't need to worry about it as GM.

- NPCs and bad guys are spectacularly easy to pull out of your butt. Err, figuratively speaking. As minions Storminator was using "ninja 6!" - PL 6 ninjas who were +6 to hit, 16 Defense, had +6 saves, and did +6 damage. Then you throw a little variation in there based on what ninjas do: ramp up their stealth, and maybe up their defense by 2 while ratcheting down their toughness save the same amount. A good rule is that if it's too complicated to remember, I don't use it.

I did the same with "Incan mummies 8" last night. This system is really flexible. Base everything at the PL and adjust on the fly. A brute? Lower the defense and attack roll by 4, increase the toughness save and damage the same amount. A speedster? Raise defense, lower toughness. Then add whatever special effects you want.

- As a GM you can hand out a hero point as GM fiat any time you want, so if your bad guy misses a PC you really wanted him to hit, toss over a hero point and you clobber him. This gives the GM strong narrative control while also giving the PCs a corresponding advantage.

- As an effects-based system, your special effects can completely hide the underlying game mechanics. For instance, maybe the bad guy shoots fire or has tiny laser-shooting heliodrones or uses the power cosmic to blast -- but it's still just a blast, and uses the same game mechanics. If it's called for by the special effects, toss another mechanic in there (such as a smoke creature who also blinds you when he hits you unless you make a save, a grease blast that makes you slip, or what have you.) So long as I can picture what the villain and his powers look like, it's really easy for me to guess at the correct power and set it at the appropriate Power Level -- and there's no rules lawyering because the players might not even know what power you're using, only its effects.

- As in any cinematic, comic-booky system, combat needs to be really fast and fluid. That's something MnM does well. I keep combat moving and award action points for clever quips and cool actions.

 

[ForceUser]

I'm glad to see the M&M love; in fact some friends of mine play M&M and they enjoy it. I am also thankful for any comments on that system, as I may use it in the future. I think I'm kind of burnt out on d20 systems, though, now that I think about it. 8 solid years of 3E kind of wore me out.

Edit: PC's description of gameplay is enticing, however. I hate doing mechanical work. I'm a very fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants GM.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

If you want seat-of-your-pants lite-ness you should definitely try a system like Truth&Justice, Cartoon Action Hour: Season 2, or the newest version of HeroQuest.

 

[Piratecat]

I hate doing mechanical work. I'm a very fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants GM.

Yup, I am as well.

MnM trumped Marvel SAGA as my go-to game for Supers. It can be really crunchy if you want it to be (hi, gadgeteers!) but it plays to every one of my strengths as a GM. Combat is really swingy, as it should be in a comic; heroes and villains can get temporarily stunned or staggered with a single bad toughness save, then come back to save the day, which definitely prevents boring fights and gives an essential use for action points.

 

[TheWyrd]

One thing you might consider is looking at the M&M Annual #2, there is a 5(ish) page article on how to do M&M Lite. It isn't so much a lite version of mutants and masterminds as it is a stream lined version of character creation.

I was going to run a legacies story arc for a game that died last year. In preperation I made a modified character creation guideline based on the Lite rules. You can see what I did here: Omega Legacies Guidelines | Darktouch.Net

M&M is a great game. Whenever the conversation turns to M&M 3e, all I ask for is a modified version of 2e with some better examples and an optional simplified character creation system.

 

[Droogie]

If you want rules lite and you are truly sick of d20, M&M is not the game for you. Sure, it plays faster than traditional d20, but it still suffers from many of the D&Disms that probably gave you a headache from your 3.0 experiences such as ability score damage and piles upon piles of fiddly feats. There is a huge variety of powers, but it makes character gen a chore and its very easy to build a broken character if you aren't careful. Yes, you can find some good spreadsheets out there, but if you need a spreadsheet to prepare the game, it may not fit your definition of rules-lite. In my experience, I didn't find it as easy to run as i'd hoped. It almost felt like I was running a high level D&D game where everyone was a spellcaster. Granted, it could have been the pre-canned adventure i was running (lots of tough supervillains, not enough low-level mooks to thrash on) but I gradually stopped looking forward to game night as that familiar "D20 fatigue" began to claim me. I suggested we try a grittier, PL 6 "mystery men" type of game, but by then my players were soured on supers and ready to move on.

I own a copy of Necessary Evil, but I haven't tried it. Most people claim it doesn't do high-powered supers well.

I am hearing good things about BASH! Ultimate Edition.

 

[ForceUser]

If you want rules lite and you are truly sick of d20, M&M is not the game for you.

D20 fatigue is a good way to phrase the way I feel about 3E. I'd be down with a supers game that ran on the 4E system, but alas, WotC hasn't made one.