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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aservan" data-source="post: 4404832" data-attributes="member: 63340">Ok I posted a lot of this on RPG.net if you want to read the detailed discussion.  If not here are the salient points.  Though I will probably miss some.Good things about Warlocks<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You have the best defense of any striker. (Shadow Walk, Temp HP, Teleport, At-Wills discouraging further enemy attacks)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You have lots of ranged attacks</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic is cool</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You don't need a weapon to do what you do</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You get a bonus when the bad guys die</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You get to attack lots of defenses</li> </ul>Downsides of warlocks<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You have the best defense of any striker. (Shadow Walk, Temp HP, Teleport, At-Wills discouraging further enemy attacks)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You have no effective melee attacks (exception if you have enough stat points to have a high strength, but the ranger and rogue will still win)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Neither your damage nor your secondary effects are awesome</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Curse only works on the nearest enemy so you can have a hard time landing it on the monster you want to attack.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The biggest Warlock downside: You suck as a team player.  Few of your spells actually help the party. And you don't do enough damage to make up for it.</li> </ul>Having the best defenses of a striker sounds nifty on paper but it makes you suck at your assigned role of striker.  Why?  The monsters ignore you and focus fire on the defender.  "But wait!" you say "Isn't that what we want?"Answer: nope.  Focus fire will take even a defender down in short order.  Worse it drains the leader of heals faster so there are none left after he goes down.  You want your striker to take a certain number of hits in each fight so that his healing surges can take some of the burden off the defender.  At the end of the day your party was most efficient when all the people in it have only a few surges left.  Remember to goal of 4th was to get rid of the 5 minute work day.So when your warlock turns invisible, or says "if you hit me you will regret it," or makes the monsters not move closer to him he discourages them from attacking him which again sounds great.  Ever heard of the Maginot line?  A defense no one attacks is not doing its job and worse is a waste of resources that could be better used elsewhere.  Like doing more pain to the monsters.This is the biggest problem with the warlock.  The DM is encouraged to ignore him.  He doesn't hit hard enough to make mobs attack him, and his defenses discourage an attack.  So write him off.  Finish off the "better" characters and then get the warlock at your leisure.  As long as the DM is attacking the warlock he seems pretty effective.  Remember though the things that makes 4th fun for the DM is that he doesn't have to play the bad guys retarded anymore.  He doesn't want to kill PCs either, but the DM versus us is what makes it fun.Most of the feats in the game have to do with weapons.  Worse many of the ones that don't are pretty bad.  Take astral fire.  It gives the same feat bonuses to damage that Weapon Focus does.  So far they are even.  Weapon Focus does not require Dex though (a dump stat for warlocks).  Weapon focus works whenever you use the chosen weapon type.  That's pretty close to a 100% for most PCs.  Spells don't work like that.  Diabolic grasp the most team friendly spell in the low level warlock's arsenal is untyped and thus can't get the bonus.  Result Weapon Focus is three times the feat Astral fire is.The warlock is supposed to make up for his lack of a proficiency bonus with attacking the defense he wants.  That (sort of) works on paper but not in practice.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You don't always know what defense to attack.  Is that fig a bugbear lurker or soldier?  It makes a big difference and the DM is not going to tell you.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Encounter and Dailies work once a fight.  Even attacking the lowest defense it is still possible to miss.  Rolling anything below a 9 makes it probable even.  If you miss with your one attack versus fort or will, now what?  At low levels this is compounded by a small number of encounter and dailies available.  Even if you hit only minions go down in one hit.  Now what?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You only have 2 at-wills (3 if your human).  These are the only abilities you can rely on.  Infernal warlocks can only attack Reflex.  Fighting ghouls sucks BTW.  The other two pacts still have the problem of what if you need the one you don't have?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Attacking AC may not be as sexy but it is consistent.  You know that an AC attack for a well built character will have a decent chance of success.</li> </ul>Warlock's are not team players.  Every other class has abilities designed to help the party in some way.  Fighters push people around or take out minions on the back swing.  Paladins weaken and punish opponents who attack their pals.  Clerics and Warlords well they are bloody easy,  everything they do benefits another party member.  Wizards hit large areas and can do damage constantly by virtue of a large number of attack rolls making one bad roll less catastrophic.  Rogues stun enemies, knock them down, shove them around, and when part of good team lay down staggering amounts of damage.  Ranger make lots of attack rolls practically guaranteeing some damage each round.  This cuts enemies down faster and helps the team.4th biggest strength as a game is the great team play and tactics it encourages. Sadly (as warlocks are my favorite class fluff-wise) they were largely ostracized from this form of fun.  Making yourself invisible and dancing about the field is all well and good but it doesn't help with the actual goal of defeating the monsters.  By their own criteria I find the warlock to be a failed design.  He doesn't perform his role well.  He wants to be the "I" in team.</blockquote>

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