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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aservan" data-source="post: 4406349" data-attributes="member: 63340">Ok the eyebite cheese for those who don't know is this: You use your divine challenge on a target and then eyebite him.  If you hit you are invisible to him until the beginning of your next turn.  He now has trouble attacking you and will likely choose to attack another target or no target at all.  The benefit of him not attacking is obvious.  If he does switch targets he takes damage from the challenge.  Given the Feylocks have a high charisma the damage is not insignificant.Like most combos when it works it does so well and when it doesn't it really doesn't.  It is a crappy attack on a dragon or any solo that has an AOE attack.  Invisibility doesn't work versus AOE.  Things like gelatinous cubes don't see anyway so they ignore it as well.  It is a lot of effort to kill an ordinary monster so it usually works best to kill solos.  Even there though it can be a slogfest because of Eyebite's relatively low damage.  The biggest downside is that it can miss.  Eyebite targets will but you can always roll like crud.  If you miss he can see you and feylocks are not the toughest members of the class.The reason we want to compare rogue A to warlock B is because of the control issue. The party can set the rogue up to have combat advantage.  It takes some work and involves some one giving up "the optimal move" for their character in order to set the rogue up but when you do the reward is kinda awesome.You have no control over what the DM does with the monsters.  You can get our party to work together.  It is that simple.You are also ignoring the to hit differences between the rogue and the warlock.  It is pretty difficult for most warlocks to get combat advantage.  They tend to be hovering right outside of the main melee.  Rogues are actively seeking it out.  Combat Advantage = +2 to hit.  Rogues use daggers because they are +4 to hit.  Warlocks attack reflex mostly which is worth a +2 to hit  (Will is worth +3 but only feylocks and humans can do that reliably).  Net advantage rogue by +4 (or +3 vs. a Will warlock).  The rogue will hit more.   Prime shot reduces the advantage by 1 more but is (again) very situational.The next thing to do is compare crit damage.  The biggest attack a 1st level warlock can unload is Flames of Flegethos for 3d10+5+1d6 or 41 damage.  A Brutal Scoundrel Rogue (18 dex, 16 Str) can backstab someone with a rapier for 2d8+2d8+4+3+3 or 42 with tortuous strike.  That's a daily versus an ENCOUNTER. Now the Flames will then burn the enemy for 5 more on his turn.  Or will they.  Hobgoblins can make the save before their turn. Leaders can help their buddies out, etc.Now remember that a classic swashbuckler build will use both a rapier and a dagger and a rogue can switch between the two at will to get the higher damage or the higher to hit.  Oh and she gets +1 to hit and +1 to AC and reflex if she has the right feats (which is only a matter of getting enough of them).  Oh and weapon focus light blade for some more damage.No plan survives first contact with the enemy.  That's what makes it fun.  We can spin theory machines all day on this forum,  I am just telling you that a warlock's damage is less then the rogue and that the rogue is consequently a better class to play for the striker role.  That's my take anyway.</blockquote>

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