Help me list spells that make skills irrelevant.

[anest1s]

Balance Fly
Decipher Script: Comprehend Languages read magic?
Disguise: Disguise Self Alter Self
Escape Artist: Grease, Knock < what, knock? ...you mean freedom of movement?
Forgery: Amanuesis <- I don't think that works
Gather Information: Legend Lore
Handle Animal Charm Animal, Speak with animals
Heal Cure Spells, Heal, Remove Poison, etc
Survival: Discern Location (for tracking), Create Food and Water (for food gathering), Know Direction (for finding true north) Find the path (for win)
Swim: Alter Self Water Walk
Tumble Feather Fall, Any spell that blocks AoOs, Any spell that moves you around

also, divine insight

 

[Sekhmet]

[MENTION=94230]anest1s[/MENTION] Knock loosens binds (chains, shackles, and welds).

 

[epicbob]

This topic looks great! That could be used as a list to assist house rules.

However, You made a major typo in the Additional Skills list. You just need a dirty mind to find it.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Balance Fly
Decipher Script: Comprehend Languages read magic?
Disguise: Disguise Self Alter Self
Escape Artist: Grease, Knock < what, knock? ...you mean freedom of movement?
Forgery: Amanuesis <- I don't think that works
Gather Information: Legend Lore
Handle Animal Charm Animal, Speak with animals
Heal Cure Spells, Heal, Remove Poison, etc
Survival: Discern Location (for tracking), Create Food and Water (for food gathering), Know Direction (for finding true north) Find the path (for win)
Swim: Alter Self Water Walk
Tumble Feather Fall, Any spell that blocks AoOs, Any spell that moves you around

also, divine insight

Thanks!

Keep them coming!

 

[Jimlock]

I'm compiling a list of spells that either make investing ranks into a skill irrelevant, or provide a significant boost to the skill check. Please contribute as you think of suggestions.

Great idea!

...Still I'm here more like the devil's advocate...

I will be the one to provide the counter arguments

So.. lets see...

.....


Any Skill: Spells
Divine Insight

Standard Skills: Spells
Appraise: Legend Lore (significant items)

No. Legend Lore does not replace appraise no matter how you put it. Only works for "legendary" things, has a lasting casting time and, most importantly... does not give away price.
Again lets not forget the phrase: "If the person, place, or thing is not of legendary importance, you gain no information."
Which... kind of narrows it down... a lot.

Balance: Fly

Sure (See "*" at the end)

Bluff: Glibness

Correct... very powerful spell, unfortunately reserved for bards (and assassins) only.

Climb: Spider Climb, Alter Self, Balancing Lorecall

Sure (See "*" at the end)

Concentration
Craft: Magecraft

Decipher Script: Comprehend Languages, Read Magic

Yes... a Comprehend Languages Scrolls has saved many a lives. Still... (See "*" at the end)

Diplomacy: Suggestion, Charm Person

Sure (See "*" at the end)

Disable Device
Disguise: Disguise Self

Now now... Not true. Why? When a character disguises there is no middle ground between success and failure. They either notice you or they don't. Failure in disguise, usually, has VERY nasty consequences. This means that one cannot risk much... otherwise he will not live long to tell about it. A simple +10 given by Disguise Self, or Alter Self can help A LOT indeed... but without a strong disguise skill and the appropriate skill tricks one will not make it. Don't forget that a simple cantrip (detect magic) can always ruin any magical disguise, while the mundane one has nothing to worry about except for a strong spot.

Undisputedly, the base for success is a strong skill and the relevant skill tricks, equipment and synergies.
The spells come in VERY very handy for those with a strong skill (Alter Self can even mimic vocal cords!)... but otherwise do not serve an untrained character much.... Oh and another factor... : Duration. Sometimes you have to stay under cover for a LONG time.

Escape Artist: Grease, Knock, Freedom of Movement

Sure (See "*" at the end)

Forgery: Amanuesis (Duplicating documents)

Not really. INMO, If the spell was to be used so as to fool someone, they would have given a DC or some sort of text about it. It simply copies text to save time. Nothing more nothing less.
Even so, if one takes the "This spell copies 250 words per minute and creates a perfect duplicate of the original." to the letter without giving notice to RAI, he should be aware of the following:
Official documents, important parchments, books etc. (where forgery is used 99% of the time) almost always carry signatures, insignias stamps, sigils, family crests, illustrations etc. Even the paper matters.
So I don't see how Amanuesis can replace Forgery...

Gather Information: Legend Lore

I would love it if Legend Lore could wash my dishes... but unfortunately is does not. Again, the spell cannot provide the benefits of Gather Information.

Handle Animal: Charm Animal, Speak with Animals

Hmm... The spells are perhaps even better that the skill... for situational situations . Still, those who take ranks in the skill do it for the purpose of training, in which case the spells are useless.

Heal: Cure Light Wounds, Neutralize Poison

Ok you win

Hide: Invisiblity

Invisibility makes the Hide skill meaningless.

With all respect to dear Greenfield, this is as wrong as it can get.

I 'd even say its the other way around...

A good hide skill alongside the proper feats and HIPSs, makes Invisibility meaningless.

Staying hidden/invisible/unnoticed, like it or not, is a thing reserved for the skill monkey.

First off, something people mostly forget: Invisibility is useless if you can't keep quiet!!! ...meaning that you ALSO need to be good at moving silently. And if you ARE good at move silently, it means that you are also good at Hide... which means that you don't need invisibility

Secondly, Invisibility is only good for fooling around until level 5 or so... for there are SO many things that can see through the spell... its actually ridiculous.

In order to overcome most of the detections out there, be that magical or sensory, a character has to devote plenty of levels, feats, and skill ranks to the single profession of remaining unnoticed. And always, the base of the above is none other than strong stealth skills (Hide+Move Silently). You always build on top of those two maxed out.

...I'm getting carried away... And perhaps at this point I should give Invisibility the respect it deserves. So here it comes:

Invisibility is a great GREAT spell! One of my favorites actually!!!

Still... if a character wants to play the "invisible" type. Invisibility is NOT the solution.

Intimidate: Cause Fear

Ummm... NO. Just read the spell description and then the skill description.

Jump: Jump (spell), Fly, Alter Self

Sure (See "*" at the end)

Knowledge: Commune, Contact Other Plane, Legend Lore

Legend lore again... *sigh*... not really. Even Commune and Contact other Plane cannot really do the job because of the monolectic responses of yes, no and maybe...
Still I won't argue much, cause in certain situations the spells will be perfect for the job... while in other cases they will be useless and the skill will pull through... So.. its a tie.

Listen: Tremorsense

Yes. For detecting stealthy creatures and characters it is really good. However it only covers 30 feet.
Anyway, listen is not really effective for taking down characters+creatures devoted to stealth. I've yet to see someone max out his Listen skill...
Listen serves for plenty of other things. Tremorsense is simply a 30 feet detection spell.

Move Silently: Silence

Umm no... no .... NO!!!

I've yet to hear of an infiltrator, a spy, a scout who is completely deaf!!!

Open Lock: Knock

Sure (See "*" at the end)

Perform
Profession
Ride: Mount, Teleport

Mount ? Please read the spell, and then the skill!!!

? Teleport ? Since when does teleport help one fight while mounted??

Other than that sure.... I'd rather have teleport than a good ride skill
(*sigh* Both are completely irrelevant)

Search: Locate Object (If known), Summon Monster I (finding traps)

Funny

NO. Search does more than those spells combined. Just read the skill text.
Search is really hard to beat.

Sense Motive: Zone of Truth, Discern Lies

Sure (See "*" at the end)

Sleight Of Hand
Speak Language: Tongues

Sure (See "*" at the end)

Spellcraft: Identify (item identification)

I don't see the point of that... Spellcraft is not a skill that can be replaced by a spell, but a skill that works with spells...

No?

Spot: Prying Eyes, Tremorsense

Yes, Prying Eyes does more than cover for spot, in some cases... For tremorsense see above.
Still, not even prying eyes can cover for spot as a whole, especially for those personal (often opposed) checks.

Survival: Discern Location (for tracking), Create Food and Water (for food gathering), Know Direction (for finding true north), Find the Path (safe travel)

Sure (See "*" at the end)
One remark: Even for a spell as powerful as Discern Location, you must have seen the subject at least once. That is a big deal. Survival simply finds someone, no matter whether you have seen him or not.

Swim: Alter Self, Water Walk (Crossing water)

Sure (See "*" at the end)

Tumble
Use Magic Device
Use Rope

.....
..... So, time to explain the asterisk (*)
Well... if you finally find yourself with the following spells memorized/prepared:
Legend Lore, Spide Climb, Balancing Lorecall, Comprehend Languages, Suggestion, Charm Person, Cause Fear, Jump, Knock, Legend Lore (again), Mount, Discern lies, Know Direction, Water Walk, Disguise Self, Charm Animal, Silence, Tongues, Invisibility, Commune, Contact other Plane... Legend Lore (again)....

its time to ask yourself.... Why the hell aren't you playing a skill monkey?

 

[Sekhmet]

[MENTION=6674931]Jimlock[/MENTION] The purpose of the thread wasn't to memorize the spells necessary to replace skill monkies, it was to find spells that performed the same function as skills.
Regarding specifics you've pointed out:
One of the facets of Spellcraft is to Identify items. Identify covers that particular facet just fine. Like with many of the exceptions you've noted, the spell listed covers one or two facets of a skill, rather than the skill in it's entirety.
Move Silently has nothing to do with Listen, and so Silence covers it just fine. The fact that some applications of Move Silently require Listen, Spot, Gather Information, Sense Motive, or any other number of skills is irrelevant to the question at hand.
The same could be said for most of your exceptions.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

[MENTION=6674931]Jimlock[/MENTION], the objective of this thread was more about What you could do, not Why you might do it.

Agreed, some of the spells suggested do not fulfill every application of what a skill can do, but perhaps can simulate a certain thing a skill can do. For example, Amanuesis would make an identical copy of a text. Yes, you'd need to provide identical paper. Yes, any attempt to make a variation of anything could not be fulfilled by this spell. But it could make one permit into a dozen, one IOU into a handful, etc.

The example of Teleport making Ride irrelevant is to replace the need to get around by horse, which is a fast mode of travel, with an even faster mode of travel. It provides absolutely no help to actually getting onto a horse, for a jousting match, making your way into town in a parade, etc.

And so, feel free to let your mind wander the possibilities, and save other threads for application. I'd love more contributions to this thread!

 

[Dozen]

Someone said my name?

There's Eyes of the Avoral that gives bonus to Spot checks.
Third party Cloak of Fears gives Intimidate bonus. Only useful at higher levels.
Listening Lorecall boosts your hearing only a small bit, but if you have ranks in Listen in addition to that, it also gives Blindsense and later Blindsight.
Nightmare Terrain is a personal fav. Gives concealment, lets the caster hide in plain sight, entangles, and True Seeing can't do anything with the former two.

Hm... does the Mount spell automatically make you proficient at riding it well? The wording of the spell states, "The steed serves willingly and well."

Mount doesn't work that way. When something serves you 'willingly and well', it doesn't make you suck less at commanding it. You don't need checks to sit on it's back and gallop around, tough. If you only want to travel, you don't need Ride checks at all, so long you're willing to waste a move action to dismount if you end up in a random encounter.

Summon Monster I replaces Search (for the purpose of trapfinding).

What kind of f?cker would do that? Those things are alive, ya know. You can't throw fluffy outsiders at spikes just because they don't die from it. At least point out it's Non-Good only or something...

 

[Empirate]

Well... if you finally find yourself with the following spells memorized/prepared:
Legend Lore, Spide Climb, Balancing Lorecall, Comprehend Languages, Suggestion, Charm Person, Cause Fear, Jump, Knock, Legend Lore (again), Mount, Discern lies, Know Direction, Water Walk, Disguise Self, Charm Animal, Silence, Tongues, Invisibility, Commune, Contact other Plane... Legend Lore (again)....

its time to ask yourself.... Why the hell aren't you playing a skill monkey?

You know, as a high-level caster, I'd probably just keep most of these on a bunch of scrolls/wands/eternal wands, obviating my group's need for a skillmonkey altogether, then go to town with my normal spell selection memorized.

Stuff like Disguise Self, Suggestion, Invisibility, Find the Path will probably be on my day-to-day list anyway. Knock, Mount, Silence, Water Walk fit nicely on a wand or eternal wand. Tongues is a nice scroll spell, and can easily be memorized when visiting a foreign country; similar for Discern Lies, Know Direction. Commune/Contact Other Plane, Legend Lore and similar will be memorized when needed, and can usually wait a day for me to do so.

 

[Li Shenron]

You know, as a high-level caster, I'd probably just keep most of these on a bunch of scrolls/wands/eternal wands, obviating my group's need for a skillmonkey altogether, then go to town with my normal spell selection memorized.

The beauty of this thread, is that it can be used for other (opposite?) purposes too: as a player I could use it to avoid certain spells that would unnecessarily step on another PC's toes, or as a DM I can use it to ban or house rules any spells that I am concerned about their ability to kill an adventure's fun.