Help me make a bladesinger that doesn't suck

[orangefruitbat]

Using the Complete Warrior version.

32 pt character buy, 9th level, 36000 gp in equipment.

The bladesinger doesn't need to be uber, but needs to be able to survive the perils of a hardcore dungeon crawl.

I've been trying to build one but I just can't make it work.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Post what you've done, and see if people can refine it.

 

[Darklone]

I'd go with an EK build Ftr1/Wiz6/EKx/Bladesinger1.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

General Advise:

Take a look at the old bladesinger spell lists, and give these spells (and spells witht he same theme - protect the character and make him a better melee fighter) preferential treatment.

After that, you have to decide what kind of warrior you want: the devastator or the tactician. In the former case, you get high Str, a longsword and the power attack chain feat. In the latter case, you keep Dex high (and Int of course) and take the combat expertise and dodge feat chains, weapon finesse and a rapier. (Or you convince your DM that you should be allowed to use an elven thinblade, and have this as a familiar weapon for elves )

And mithral chain (mail or shirt) is a must (except, of course, if you can get your hands on glassteel).

 

[Cheiromancer]

Play an elf, and put the two level based ability increases into intelligence. I.e.

Str: 14
Dex: 16 (14+2r)
Con: 12 (14-2r)
Int: 18 (16+2L)
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

For class levels, I suggest you start with Swashbuckler 3 (for insightful strike and skill points), Fighter 2 (for feats) and Wizard 1. You can mix up the levels, but take Swashbuckler at 1st level. An example build follows (class granted feats are marked with a *, and I have suggested some feats for levels 1, 3, 6 and 9):

1. Swashbuckler 1- Weapon Finesse*, Weapon Focus: Rapier
2. Wizard 1- Scribe Scroll*
3. Swashbuckler 2- grace +1, Combat Casting
4. Fighter 1- Dodge*
5. Fighter 2- Combat Expertise*
6. Swashbuckler 3- insightful strike, Combat Reflexes
7. Bladesinger 1- bladesong style (+1 AC)
8. Bladesinger 2- lesser spellsong (take 10 to cast defensively)
9. Bladesinger 3- Improved Critical: Rapier

A Mithral Chain Shirt should be on your equipment list, and a magic rapier (it's finessable). Gloves of Dexterity are a good idea. A selection of wands.

At 9th level you cast as a 3rd level wizard. True Strike (1) and Blindness (2) have verbal only components, so you'll want to consider them. Enlarge Person gives you reach (good combo with combat reflexes), but also hits your dexterity. You might want a wand of enlarge person anyway. Cast at 1st level it still lasts a minute, which is enough for most combats.

 

[orangefruitbat]

So far I have two flavors:


rogue 2/fighter 2/wiz 3/ spellsword 1/ bladesigner 1

STR 14, Dex 16 (18), Con 14, Int 17, Wis 8, Cha 10. HP 55 BAB +6. AC: 24/25 dodging, Longsword +9/+4 (d8+3). F/R/W: 8,9,6.
combat casting, combat expertise, dodge, weapon focus (long sword), scribe scroll, sneak attack +d6, evasion, ignore 10% spellfailure, dodge, mobility, bladesong style. Casts spells as wizard 5.

gauntlets of dexterity+2, amulet of natural armor+2, ring of deflection+1, mithril shirt+2, keen longsword+1, slippers of spiderclimbing, 3800 gp left over

This version had a good skills (nothing wasted cross-class), good AC, so-so combat abilities, but gets sneak attack and evasion, poor damage output, and moderate spellcasting.
----------------------------
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter2/Wiz1/Bladesinger 3

STR 10, Dex 16 (18), Con 14, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 12. HP 66. BAB +8. AC: 21/22 dodging, Rapier +13/+8 (d6+5). F/R/W: 9,9,4.
Combat casting, Dodge, Combat expertise, Weapon finesse, Weapon focus (rapier), Mobility, Elusive Target, Scribe Scroll, Grace+1, Insightful Strike. Lesser Spellsong. Casts spells as a wizard 3.

gauntlets of dexterity+2, amulet of natural armor+2, ring of deflection+2, keen rapier+1, slippers of spiderclimbing, 800 gp left over

This version has batter combat capabilities, HP, poorer AC, and weaker spellcasting.

Also, the rules for the bladesong style say that you need to keep your hand free. Technically, a buckler does not require the use of your off-hand. Can you use a buckler and still benefit from the bladesong style?

 

[Victim]

I'd definitely reccomend prioritizing strength over dex. Without mad flurries of sneak attacks, it's rather hard to make a dex based character do damage. A hard to hit, Expertise using fighter type that doesn't do damage is more of an observer.

 

[Epinephrine]

I'll admit that my build min-maxing skills aren't as refined as those of most others here, but it seems that you've got most of the good options figured out already, and the rest is mostly figuring out which combination of options you like best. Here's one build I was considering, in the hope that it'll give you at least some insight.

Elf for the Dex, of course.
Swashbuckler 3 for insightful strike, which lets Int eventually do triple duty (spells, damage, and AC). It also reduces the emphasis on Str which is great because you already need high Dex and Int.
Wizard 2 because the second level doesn't cost you BAB, just hp and bladesinger abilities.
Spellsword 1 for the spell failure reduction.
Improved Disarm because your attack bonus isn't going to be much worse than a pure fighter's, and you already have Combat Expertise.

Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16 (18 after levels), Wis 8, Cha 8

1. Swashbuckler 1 - Weapon Finesse*, Combat Expertise
2. Fighter 1 - Improved Disarm*
3. Fighter 2 - Weapon Focus (rapier)*, Dodge
4. Swashbuckler 2 - [grace +1]
5. Swashbuckler 3 - [insightful strike]
6. Wizard 1 - Scribe Scroll*, Combat Casting
7. Bladesinger 1 - [bladesong style]
8. Wizard 2
9. Spellsword 1 - [ignore spell failure 10%], Improved Critical (rapier)

* class granted feat

BAB +8, class base saves: Fort +8 Ref +4 Will +8, hit dice 5d10+2d8+2d4+9, wizard caster level 4.


possible magical equipment:
mithral chain shirt +2, mithral light shield +2, masterwork mighty (+2) composite longbow [just in case], blessed rapier +1, gloves of dexterity +2, headband of intellect +2, ring of protection +2, 1000 gp left over

rapier attack +15/+10, damage 1d6+8 (15-20/x2)
longbow attack +14/+9, damage 1d8+2 (20/x3)
AC 26 (dodge 27), touch 17, flat-footed 21
Fort +9 Ref +9 Will +7


This build was designed to lose as little fighting power as possible, using spellcasting mainly to augment that and for utility spells if there's no other party arcanist. The goal is to crit hard (+5 Int, +2 Str, +1 enhancement) and crit often. Bladesinger levels until they max out was my original plan after this.

It shouldn't matter much to trade two points of Str for Cha if you don't want the Cha penalty, losing just +1 to damage.

If you can't use the blessed weapon descriptor (from BoED), just giving the rapier another +1 instead is probably the best other option.

A mithral small shield may be better than no shield until you pick up your third level in bladesinger. If you're using a build that ends up with three or more levels in it, don't forget about animated shields or a ring of force shield (if you don't have to wield it, the wording looks unclear to me), although both options are expensive.

You may want to consider spending some of any leftover gp on scrolls of utility spells (knock, water breathing, see invisibility...) if there isn't another arcane caster in the party. Scrolls of useful 3rd-level spells (haste!, fly, dispel magic...) are an option too, since you'll fail only 5% of the time trying to use them.

Hope this helps. Good luck.