Help me nerf the druid

[StreamOfTheSky]

When fighting opposition of higher level, expect difficulties.

Also, in this particular case: close your eyes and grapple.
So yes, he'll get AoO on you (or maybe not, he was a sorcerer).

50% miss chance and your CMB vs his CMD:
CMD = 10 + Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + Dexterity modifier + special size modifier

This is the way our party Barbarian does most of opponents under multiple buffs.


Regards,
Ruemere

PS. Blind-Fight + Rage = CMB ownage.

I was the party Barb, technically (Barb 2 / Warblade 4)... Rage only gives +2 CMB and I didn't have Blind-Fight.

We did try grappling, I don't remember all the reasons why, but that didn't work out too well for us, either. He did have a decent melee attack and none of us had Imp. Grapple, so the fact he was disrupting the attempts one reason we abandoned the idea. Also, even once grappling, it barely helped the others to hit him, they still ran the risk of hitting an image, whilst the grappler did piddly unarmed damage for the short time he could hold the sorcerer (I'm guessing he had the feat to treat HD as BAB for CMD based on his grapple checks).

Now, we didn't try closing our eyes. In retrospect, I guess a 50% miss chance IS an improvement to the situation. Even so, giving the guy the effect of Greater Invisibility (wich is basically what fighting him blind does mechanically) as a way to depower his level 2 buff spell is pretty friggin stupid, don't you think?
So, we fought him toe to toe in a stalemate for about a dozen rounds, going through two sets of mirror image castings. We could barely hurt him, and he ran away after running out of spells and failing to kill us. All because we couldn't just do simple things like hit image AC or let our companions know which one was real for a turn when we got lucky.

 

[Glade Riven]

On the whole halfling-to-bear thing - what if he was under Bear's Endurance as well? No reason they can't stack. Between that and wild shape, the total bonus is either +6 or +8, depending on whether or not it was a medium or large bear.

Granted, a STR 18 human would be able to buff that way as well, but if someone is wanting to have a STR 16 halfling druid when they had the proper rolls, it's not that big of difference.

 

[BryonD]

I assume you mean Bull's STr, and yes, by PF they stack, so it is still good.

 

[ruemere]

I was the party Barb, technically (Barb 2 / Warblade 4)... Rage only gives +2 CMB and I didn't have Blind-Fight.

We did try grappling, I don't remember all the reasons why, but that didn't work out too well for us, either. He did have a decent melee attack and none of us had Imp. Grapple, so the fact he was disrupting the attempts one reason we abandoned the idea. Also, even once grappling, it barely helped the others to hit him, they still ran the risk of hitting an image, whilst the grappler did piddly unarmed damage for the short time he could hold the sorcerer (I'm guessing he had the feat to treat HD as BAB for CMD based on his grapple checks).

Pile up. Once someone gets a grapple, Aid him.

Grapple, important quotes:

• Remember +5! If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. - as soon as you get to maintain the grapple, you get +5 to use in all the checks.
• Pin him! Pin: You can give your opponent the pinned condition (see Conditions). Despite pinning your opponent, you still only have the grappled condition, but you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC.
• Aid another! Multiple Creatures: Multiple creatures can attempt to grapple one target. The creature that first initiates the grapple is the only one that makes a check, with a +2 bonus for each creature that assists in the grapple (using the Aid Another action). Multiple creatures can also assist another creature in breaking free from a grapple, with each creature that assists (using the Aid Another action) granting a +2 bonus on the grappled creature's combat maneuver check.

With all of the party helping with the pin, you should have between +7 to +11 in addition to your CMB. Then just tie him up and sit on him. Gagging is optional.

Of course, it may be just that your GM was setting you up - Sorcerers (unless they are giants) very rarely make such good wrestlers.

Now, we didn't try closing our eyes. In retrospect, I guess a 50% miss chance IS an improvement to the situation. Even so, giving the guy the effect of Greater Invisibility (wich is basically what fighting him blind does mechanically) as a way to depower his level 2 buff spell is pretty friggin stupid, don't you think?

Nah, I'm fine with that. I have been (in real life) blinded with strobe lights, suffered from motion sickness and had tear gas experimentally used on me - in all cases, despite vestigial vision, closing my eyes helped me to focus on what I was doing. Mirror Image is like seeing several things overlapping - it works in the same way stage magicians fool your vision to perform tricks in plain sight.

So, we fought him toe to toe in a stalemate for about a dozen rounds, going through two sets of mirror image castings. We could barely hurt him, and he ran away after running out of spells and failing to kill us. All because we couldn't just do simple things like hit image AC or let our companions know which one was real for a turn when we got lucky.

I've put souped up spellcasters in melee several times, too. My players always came up with creative ways to disable or negate the opposition. Once they outwaited duration of spells, another time they used faerie fire to outline real creature.

My point is, that unless you GM sets you against much stronger opponent, you should try thinking outside the box. It may not be the best way, but it is what is expected of players - to do something outstanding and inventive.
Or run. You don't need to win every fight, sometimes survival is sufficient.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Friend of the Dork]

When fighting opposition of higher level, expect difficulties.

Also, in this particular case: close your eyes and grapple.
So yes, he'll get AoO on you (or maybe not, he was a sorcerer).

50% miss chance and your CMB vs his CMD:
CMD = 10 + Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + Dexterity modifier + special size modifier

This is the way our party Barbarian does most of opponents under multiple buffs.


Regards,
Ruemere

PS. Blind-Fight + Rage = CMB ownage.

Good tips. I agree with SotS that the Pathfinder version seem even more powerful and changed a spell that didn't really need buffing.

Another tip might be the good old magic missile. Target one ...wait.... the new spell means MMs will affect the target automatically. It seems only spells that require an attack roll can hit a figment. Which means spells is the best way to attack Mirrored Imaged casters.