Help me on a matter of move-based skills

[Li Shenron]

Nowadays I am DMing a 3.5 adventure and I am making some confusion about how to correctly use the skills which are used as part of a movement: Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Swim and Tumble. These skills don't seem to work all with the same pattern, therefore it is easy to forget the differences. I want to double-check them all so that tonight - our next session - it will hopefully go more smoothly than before. Please let me know if I am doing them wrong!

Let's assume a base speed 30 (for simplicity, let's not round for the moment).

BALANCE
normal
a) move 15ft as a full-round action (1 check)*
accelerated
b) move 30ft as a move action (1 check at -5)
c) move 60ft as a double move (2 checks at -5)
d) charge up to 30ft as a full-round action (1 check at -5)
e) charge up to 60ft as a full-round action (2 checks at -5)
*this is an old point: does "move half speed for 1 round" mean 15ft or 30ft?

CLIMB
normal
a) climb as part of a move up to 7.5ft (1 check)
b) climb as part of a double move up to 15ft (2 checks)
accelerated
c) climb as part of a move up to 15ft (1 check at -5)
d) climb as part of a double move up to 30ft (2 checks at -5)

HIDE
normal
a) hide as part of a move up to 15ft (1 check)
b) hide as part of a double move up to 30ft (1 check)
accelerated
c) hide as part of a move up to 30ft (1 check at -5)
d) hide as part of a double move up to 60ft (1 check at -5)
running
e) hide as part of a charge or run (1 check at -20)

JUMP
Simply: distance moved by jumping is counted against your normal maximum movement in a round. It then says it's "part of a move action", but does it specifically exclude movements which are other type of actions like running, charging, withdrawing? What about combining jumping with hide, move silently, tumble or balance?

MOVE SILENTLY
normal
a) m.s. as part of a move up to 15ft (1 check)
b) m.s. as part of a double move up to 30ft (1 or 2 checks???)
accelerated
c) m.s. as part of a move up to 30ft (1 check at -5)
d) m.s. as part of a double move up to 60ft (1 or 2 checks at -5???)
running
e) m.s. as part of a charge or run (1 check at -20)

SWIM
normal
a) swim as a move up to 7.5ft (1 check)
b) swim as a full-round action up to 15ft (1 check)

TUMBLE
This is always done at half speed. Number of checks = number of opponents.
The problem is... which speed do you halve? Only the "part" of your move when you are in the threatened area? All your move action (but for example not the other move if you take a double move)? Or every distance moved during the whole round, including eventually the second move - even if you are not passing into anyone's threatened area during the second move?

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As you see they are all slightly different. It is not always about reducing your base speed to 50% or 25% and then use whatever movement action you want (which could be a valid House Rule), because in some cases you are restricted exactly to MOVE actions, and doing 2 moves requires 2 checks; in other cases doing a double move still requires 1 check; in other cases (Balance) it doesn't even say you can take a single move, only a round of moving.

I understand that this is a very boring issue... but I HAVE to go through this carefully, otherwise I'll still end up making lots of confusion every session...

 

[Tatsukun]

OK, I’ll try it…

BALANCE
normal
a) move 15ft as a full-round action (1 check)*
accelerated
b) move 30ft as a move action (1 check at -5)
c) move 60ft as a double move (2 checks at -5)
d) charge up to 30ft as a full-round action (1 check at -5)
e) charge up to 60ft as a full-round action (2 checks at -5)
*this is an old point: does "move half speed for 1 round" mean 15ft or 30ft?

a) It’s really a move action. You make one check, and you are considered to have passed the DC for the round. You can then make a move of up to half you speed (in this case 15’) or you can double move up to your full speed (30’). It’s not a full round action.

B,C, are right. I don’t know about D,E (IDHMBIFOM)

CLIMB
normal
a) climb as part of a move up to 7.5ft (1 check)
b) climb as part of a double move up to 15ft (2 checks)
accelerated
c) climb as part of a move up to 15ft (1 check at -5)
d) climb as part of a double move up to 30ft (2 checks at -5)

All correct

HIDE
normal
a) hide as part of a move up to 15ft (1 check)
b) hide as part of a double move up to 30ft (1 check)
accelerated
c) hide as part of a move up to 30ft (1 check at -5)
d) hide as part of a double move up to 60ft (1 check at -5)
running
e) hide as part of a charge or run (1 check at -20)

All Correct

JUMP
Simply: distance moved by jumping is counted against your normal maximum movement in a round. It then says it's "part of a move action", but does it specifically exclude movements which are other type of actions like running, charging, withdrawing? What about combining jumping with hide, move silently, tumble or balance?

If Bob-san the monk wants to jump over a 10’ pit here is what happens. He moves 20’ (to make a running jump), then jumps 10’ (which counts as 20’ because it’s jumping) at DC 10, and lands on the other side.

Since Bob-san has a movement of 30’ and has so far moved 40’, he has 20’ left in his second move action (he’s double moving).

Interesting side note, if Bob-san already used a standard action, has to ‘stop’ midway over the pit (after moving 20’ for the running jump, ten 5 more feet –counting as 10 because he is jumping-). He can’t fly, so he falls.

MOVE SILENTLY
normal
a) m.s. as part of a move up to 15ft (1 check)
b) m.s. as part of a double move up to 30ft (1 or 2 checks???)
accelerated
c) m.s. as part of a move up to 30ft (1 check at -5)
d) m.s. as part of a double move up to 60ft (1 or 2 checks at -5???)
running
e) m.s. as part of a charge or run (1 check at -20)

It’s the same as hide. So ‘B’ is 2 checks, as is ‘D’

SWIM
normal
a) swim as a move up to 7.5ft (1 check)
b) swim as a full-round action up to 15ft (1 check)

All correct

TUMBLE
This is always done at half speed. Number of checks = number of opponents.
The problem is... which speed do you halve? Only the "part" of your move when you are in the threatened area? All your move action (but for example not the other move if you take a double move)? Or every distance moved during the whole round, including eventually the second move - even if you are not passing into anyone's threatened area during the second move?

It’s the same as jumping. Only the parts you are tumbling are doubled. Also, remember that the DC gets higher for each additional bad guy.

As you see they are all slightly different. It is not always about reducing your base speed to 50% or 25% and then use whatever movement action you want (which could be a valid House Rule), because in some cases you are restricted exactly to MOVE actions, and doing 2 moves requires 2 checks; in other cases doing a double move still requires 1 check; in other cases (Balance) it doesn't even say you can take a single move, only a round of moving.

I understand that this is a very boring issue... but I HAVE to go through this carefully, otherwise I'll still end up making lots of confusion every session...

Not all are different, as noted above, tumble and jump are similar, as are M.S. and hide.
To a rules-lawyer wanna-be like me, it’s not boring at all! Hey, it beats work!

Have a great game!

-Tatsu

 

[Darklone]

Are you sure that he will fall into the pit? There was an old ruling in 3.0 where he was allowed to end his jump next round.

Edit: here we go: Jump skill SRD:

Action: None. A Jump check is included in your movement, so it is part of a move action. If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump.

No falling down.

 

[Li Shenron]

No falling down.

I thought he was joking...

 

[Darklone]

I thought he was joking...

He was? Oops, sorry then.

 

[McBard]

Heh, it was kind of hard to tell if Tatsukun was joking...but, in any event, no: you wouldn't fall down the pit in the middle of the jump. The resolution of the leap is carried over until the next round. The 3.5 PHB (in addition to the SRD quote in the above post) actually addresses this on page 77, second column under "Action":

If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump

Now, my take on a couple of Li Shenron's other scenarios.

Balance, scenario a): 1 check (that is good for 1 round) allows you to move at 1/2 speed. You can decide to burn 2 move actions after this 1 check, and thus make two 1/2 Speed moves. However, technically, it is not a "full-round action", but rather "two move actions that have taken up 1 round".

Tumble: when you decide to tumble, your Speed becomes one-half normal during that move action. THEN, you decide how many move actions you want to burn (either one or two). Technically, as the rule is written, it implies that, even if your move action Tumble was only used to get past one opponent, your entire move action is at 1/2 Speed. You could, however, then "come out of your tumble" for your second move action and move at full Speed. To illustrate, a 30 Speed tumbler has the following move action combinations as options:

1) Tumble move action (15') + Tumble move action (15')
2) Normal move action (30') + Tumble move action (15')
3) Tumble move action (15') + Normal move action (30')

I see your point, however, that the above situations often waste some of the tumbler's movement. Instead, as a variant, you could house rule that tumbling through a square simply costs 2 squares of movement (effectively, halving your Speed *just for that square*). This would allow, say, the 30' normal Speed tumbler to tumble through one square (costing 2 of his 6 squares) and then to "come out of the tumble" immediately after, and continue 4 squares of movement--ALL during just one move action. This makes tumbling a bit more powerful, obviously.

 

[Artoomis]

...TUMBLE
This is always done at half speed. Number of checks = number of opponents.
The problem is... which speed do you halve? Only the "part" of your move when you are in the threatened area? All your move action (but for example not the other move if you take a double move)? Or every distance moved during the whole round, including eventually the second move - even if you are not passing into anyone's threatened area during the second move?...

Tumble works like this:

Each square you tumble through counts as double movement. You may take the check at -10 to move at full speed instead. The relevant text is:

...Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement...Tumble at one-half speed through an area occupied by an enemy ...By accepting a –10 penalty on your Tumble checks, you can move at your full speed instead of one-half your speed.

Since tumbling is only "part" of your move or is through "an area occupied by an enemy " you can move the rest of your move at full speed. The part when you are not tumbling or are not moving through enemy squares. No house-rule required.