Help me re-craft module H3!

[not_me]

Goodday to all!

Recently I have run my gaming group through the old-school AD&D modules of H1 (Bloodstone Village) and H2 (the Mines of Bloodstone). It is now time to prepare module H3 (The Bloodstone Wars) and... well, I'm stuck!

Here's the rundown about my stuckness: Module H3 is basically a series of Battlesystem fights, ending with a short dungeon-y run through an assasin's training lair. We went the battlesystem route in H1, and it really did not work out well in the end. I could try to use the methods from Heroes of Battle, and that might be great for a large battle or two, but I don't think the players would be interested in a protracted set of large scale battles.

So here's my call for help and inspiration!

What can you suggest, point to, reccomend, design, etc to make a nifty medium-sized adventure to tie the gap between modules H2 and the upcoming H4? The only two points I'm thinking ought to be there is a romp through the Grandfather of Assasin's lair (taking him out of commision for a while) and a pointer or standoff that will set the stage for the party heading into Vaasa to begin H4.

Here's a page that describes the module if you're not familiar with it: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_Bloodstone_Wars The module had the characters moving to sell bloodstone from the re-opened mines, which prompts the subjugated barons of the south to begin a war against the Barony of Bloodstone. After a series of battlesystem battles, you stand victorious, find the location of the Assassin's lair (somehow), defeat him/them, then find a standoff with the armies from the north.

Something more intricate, crafted for high-level characters without being too hand-wavey to keep it from being too easy due to magic et al, is what I'm looking for. Amaze me!

Thanks to all,

not_me

 

[ruleslawyer]

Hi there!

Sorry you haven't gotten more responses; perhaps not too many DMs on this board have run H3. I ran it pretty much as written, but I understand not wanting to do a Battlesystem-style series of scenarios. That said, in order to do something different, you're basically going to have to chuck out the current adventure, since as written, the PCs' primary motivation is to pacify the neighboring baronies/duchies and that does require going to war. My recommendation would be to do something like this:

The Political Option: Set up the adventure as written (in other words, those provinces still loyal to the Witch-King are mobilizing their forces for battle), but offer the PCs a means of using their own abilities to stop the conflict. For good-aligned PCs, this one should be a slam-dunk; hundreds or even thousands of (relatively) innocent soldiers and peasant conscripts on both sides will die in a large-scale conflict, and at the PCs' exalted levels, there's no reason why they can't just forestall the conflict by dealing directly with the domain sovereigns (via Diplomacy, infiltration, charms, assassination, or any number of other tactics). If you can, pick up FR9 The Bloodstone Lands (available HERE on pdf) to get a closer picture of the domain leaders' characters and motivations at the time of the conflict. Engaging one-on-one with some politically (and possibly personally) powerful NPCs might be a better use of the PCs' abilities than fighting a war.

In this sort of game, the PCs can gradually uncover the involvement of the Grandfather of Assassins (who perhaps seeks to covertly oppose the PCs by deploying his own diplomats, spies, and assassins) and then eventually travel to the Grandfather's lair to defeat their mightiest foe (for this adventure, at least!) once and for all.

I recommend the above because it diversifies the style of adventure rather nicely. H1 is a straight-up mass battle; H2 a (rather massive) dungeon crawl; and H4 a wilderness-turned-planar exploration adventure (and we should talk about how to rewrite that one, too; IMHO, it's the worst of the series). Making H3 a political adventure also ties the PCs a bit more firmly to the kingdom that it may one day be their destiny to unite under rulership.

 

[not_me]

Hi there! Sorry you haven't gotten more responses; perhaps not too many DMs on this board have run H3.

Perhaps... it is a fairly old module, that is for sure (and from what I've gathered over the years not a very well known one either). But if anyone has any ideas even from the brief descriptions given here, please jump in!

The Political Option: Set up the adventure as written (in other words, those provinces still loyal to the Witch-King are mobilizing their forces for battle), but offer the PCs a means of using their own abilities to stop the conflict. ... there's no reason why they can't just forestall the conflict by dealing directly with the domain sovereigns (via Diplomacy, infiltration, charms, assassination, or any number of other tactics).

This is sort of where I was leaning, though knowing my group I think strictly political or straight-up diplomacy might be less of a chance. Would you see it as something that almost amounts to a series of mini-adventures that would lead one onto the next (not necessarily in a particular order, though that would increase prep time on the beginning end to be prepared)? If so, what would you reccomend to give it a progression -- obvioulsy in the actual H3 the events are pretty linear and with continued intent, as it's a series of linked battles. Have that as a background in some way (ie, certain duchies are mobilizing, so the PCs need to take care of that one next), or... ?

I did come up with, so far, a particular scenario that could start the campaign, and it can start rather easily with a good lead. It is a bit clichee, perhaps, has a good start and a small dungeon-crawly end, but lacks a serious middle, and then comes the question at the end to lead them onto the next bit...

In this sort of game, the PCs can gradually uncover the involvement of the Grandfather of Assassins (who perhaps seeks to covertly oppose the PCs by deploying his own diplomats, spies, and assassins) and then eventually travel to the Grandfather's lair to defeat their mightiest foe (for this adventure, at least!) once and for all.

Any reccomendations on littering clues? The party knows that the grandfather was involved in Bloodstone, naturally, so they have a start. I'm concerned about providing evidence and clues that are either seem too convinient or are too much arrow-pointy (ie, go here next!)... I've no experience in doing this, so anything to provide would be great for me.

(and we should talk about how to rewrite that one, too; IMHO, it's the worst of the series).

Ok, sounds like a plan!

Making H3 a political adventure also ties the PCs a bit more firmly to the kingdom that it may one day be their destiny to unite under rulership.

It would do that, yes. I'm not sure if many in the party have any inkling to be rulers and uniters of that sort, though. At least not what I've picked up on so far. This could be a fine place for it to develop and show up, though, so that is always open as a possibility.

Thanks oodles!

not_me

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

Having played through H1-H3.5 (didn't quite get all the way through H4, although my wizard did become king), what we did was simply set out a simple set of fights for the party to deal with.

The party was treated as a 'special forces unit' in the army. We fought other 'special forces units' (ie: high level fighters, wizards, vampires, summoned demons, etc), and how we did against these determined how well the battle went. If we walked all over the opposition and crushed them completely, our side absolutely mopped up the enemy army. If we had trouble or someone needed a Raise Dead after battle, then our army was more bloodied and battered. If we lost a battle (we never did, although it got close sometimes) our army was forced from the field.

It works quite well for a heroic setting. "O king, show us your valiant spirit! Let your victories hearten our men and cower our enemies! Let your strong arm be our swords, your mighty magics our shields, your determination our war cries!"


Another method (that we didn't use but I just thought up), is to use n-th level fighters to represent military units. Rather than side A throwing 100 1st level fighters and 20 archers into battle, instead run it as Side A throwing 5, 4th level fighters and 1, 4th level ranger. Let one 'hero' unit represent a sizable portion of your army. That way you can fight with only 5-10 units on each side using standard DnD rules, but each 'figure' reduced to 0 hp is a squad/platoon/company/regiment driven from the field.

Another option is to hand-wave away the warfare, but have defeated barons retreat to their fortified castles and force the players to dig them out in person. The barons (being the Lich-King's puppets) have Vassan 'advisors' who are high level enough to supply them with summoned monsters, enscrolled demons, charmed fighters, assassins waiting in the shadows, and legions of wizards eager to prove themselves to the Lich-King. These 'advisors' are the real power behind thrones and set up mystic wards on the barons' castles to make Scry-Buff-Teleport-Fry tactics impossible.

Using these, you can leave clues in these castles that the advisors are getting funneled in through the Grandfather's Citadel.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Another option is to hand-wave away the warfare, but have defeated barons retreat to their fortified castles and force the players to dig them out in person. The barons (being the Lich-King's puppets) have Vassan 'advisors' who are high level enough to supply them with summoned monsters, enscrolled demons, charmed fighters, assassins waiting in the shadows, and legions of wizards eager to prove themselves to the Lich-King. These 'advisors' are the real power behind thrones and set up mystic wards on the barons' castles to make Scry-Buff-Teleport-Fry tactics impossible.

Using these, you can leave clues in these castles that the advisors are getting funneled in through the Grandfather's Citadel.

This was sort of what I was thinking of, actually.

That said, let's start writing something! First off, what is your PC party composition? It would help if you listed classes, races, alignments, allegiances, motivations, that sort of thing. Second, what do your PCs know about Bloodstone so far? Are they aware of the true nature of the Witch-King, getting involved with the locals, unaware of spies in their midsts, and so on? Third, what kind of adventure style do they prefer? Do they want a solemn, heroic, LotR-style confrontation against an unknowable, unassailable evil? A rollicking sword-and-sorcery romp? A Wild West-style face-off against bad guys to save their town? Those are good starting questions. Finally, what edition do you run? This also may have implications for adventure design.

As to adventure format: My initial thought was to have the lead-off be the PCs' trip to Heliogabalus to sell off the bloodstones. (I'd get a good city book to use for Heliogabalus, incidentally; Freeport's not a bad choice, though I went with City of Greyhawk, simply because of the river-city aspect and the mayor's association with the thieves' guild.) On that trip, their hoard becomes the target for a raid by Tightpurse, the city's formidable thieves' guild.

The PCs hopefully secure a captive or two from that raid; either they crash into the thieves' lair and demand satisfaction, or they conduct more subtle investigations into the guild's activities. As they do this, they learn of the growing dissent being fostered among the baronies by Dimian Ree and his agents, who are using the guild in part as an intelligence network; whether they learn of the involvement of the Assassins' Guild is a matter for you to decide, based on how quickly you want the adventure to progress.

The PCs then must decide whether to act directly against Dimian Ree (a potentially impolitic strategy, since they have no direct evidence and this might only inflame the barons further) or to go after the baronies one by one. The PCs then stage court visits; at some domains, they will be welcomed openly, only to be constantly targeted by assassination attempts. At others, they will be opposed by hostile armies. However, keep in mind that PCs of this level are like the characters in Hero: They can just batter aside ordinary soldiers, leaving their true power for use against the powerful wizards, demons, undead, and assassins awaiting them.

The surrounding baronies offer a wealth of options as follows:

1) The Scheming Villainess: As an evil wizard and a close ally of the Witch-King, Duchess Sylvia of Ostel is probably the most cartoonishly obvious of the lot. If anything, I might make her motivations *more* subtle than they're written up to be. But the plot of the mini-adventure dealing with her seems pretty obvious.

2) The Pretender: The Duchy of Carmathan is ruled by the supposed Helmont the 15th. However, there are rumors that this man is an impostor. A delegation of monks sent from the Monastery of the Yellow Rose to match his identity with their records seems to have vanished. The PCs can rescue them from the trapped, demon-haunted cellars where they are imprisoned!

3) The Wormtongue: The Duchy of Polten is ostensibly ruled by the boy-duke Donlevy the Young, but in reality his advisor Zorth pulls the strings. The boy is loved by his people, and an open ouster would be awkward. How do the PCs expose Zorth for who he is and survive the inevitable repercussions?

Those are my thoughts. I figure at around three solid combat encounters per mini-adventure, then the trip to the Assassins' Run, you've got a fairly long adventure before you, and one in which the PCs could easily gain a level or two.

As to clues to the Grandfather's involvement: I might introduce an early one at Tightpurse, pointing to an alliance with folk up north; perhaps provide a name somewhere in Carmathan or the like. The PCs must trace this contact, which turns out to be a blind drop, and eventually follow a message out of that drop to its source: Right in the PC's home village of Bloodstone! This introduces a chilling element (for maximum effect, make the Grandfather's agent a good friend or ally of the PCs) and takes the adventure from the PCs' home town back into the Galenas to reach the Grandfather's lair.

 

[not_me]

The party was treated as a 'special forces unit' in the army. We fought other 'special forces units' (ie: high level fighters, wizards, vampires, summoned demons, etc), and how we did against these determined how well the battle went. If we walked all over the opposition and crushed them completely, our side absolutely mopped up the enemy army. If we had trouble or someone needed a Raise Dead after battle, then our army was more bloodied and battered. If we lost a battle (we never did, although it got close sometimes) our army was forced from the field.

It works quite well for a heroic setting. "O king, show us your valiant spirit! Let your victories hearten our men and cower our enemies! Let your strong arm be our swords, your mighty magics our shields, your determination our war cries!"

Yeah, that sounds like it would work very well (in fact, that is much as how _Heroes of Battle_ runs it)... kinda like, well, pretty much most war movies, where the battle is going on in the background, and the main characters are a) being focussed on and b) do crazy cool things that turn the tide. (and thinking ahead to 4e, a hero's battle in the midst of a battlefield would have the battlefield become hazardous terrain with modifiers...)

Another option is to hand-wave away the warfare, but have defeated barons retreat to their fortified castles and force the players to dig them out in person. The barons (being the Lich-King's puppets) have Vassan 'advisors' who are high level enough to supply them with summoned monsters, enscrolled demons, charmed fighters, assassins waiting in the shadows, and legions of wizards eager to prove themselves to the Lich-King. These 'advisors' are the real power behind thrones and set up mystic wards on the barons' castles to make Scry-Buff-Teleport-Fry tactics impossible.

Legions of wizards. There's a certain... ring to that... and indeed, I think you two have cemented my leanings of taking it to the mini-adventure route with maybe one battle (as you outline above) in the middle.

not_me

 

[not_me]

That said, let's start writing something!

Indeed!

Those are my thoughts. I figure at around three solid combat encounters per mini-adventure, then the trip to the Assassins' Run, you've got a fairly long adventure before you, and one in which the PCs could easily gain a level or two.

Perfect, exactly what I'm looking for. I'm PMing you to start the brainstorming...

As to clues to the Grandfather's involvement: I might introduce an early one at Tightpurse, pointing to an alliance with folk up north; perhaps provide a name somewhere in Carmathan or the like. The PCs must trace this contact, which turns out to be a blind drop, and eventually follow a message out of that drop to its source: Right in the PC's home village of Bloodstone! This introduces a chilling element (for maximum effect, make the Grandfather's agent a good friend or ally of the PCs) and takes the adventure from the PCs' home town back into the Galenas to reach the Grandfather's lair.

Hmmm, that's a good outline, and that's an intersting bit at the end! -thinks more about how that would work out-

not_me

 

[not_me]

I'm PMing you to start the brainstorming...

As it turns out, it seems I cannot PM. So I sent it via the email link instead...

not_me

 

[Eridanis]

I'll point my old DM to this thread. We ran through H1-H3, 3.5-itized, last year (until he had to move out of state, so we never started H4!). He may have some insight.

 

[dmchucky]

I'll point my old DM to this thread. We ran through H1-H3, 3.5-itized, last year (until he had to move out of state, so we never started H4!). He may have some insight.

Hello there,

I am the DM that Eridanis referred to. I don't know if I can add much to the discussion better than what has already been said. If you had needed stat conversions for the first two modules; I have them both done in Word and could have emailed them to you.

As far as H3 goes, the previously mentioned ideas are excellent. In my group, what I did was to approach the players and ask them how they wanted me to handle it. Fortunately, I am a writer on the side and they asked me to encapsulate the series of battles in story format, which I would then email to the PC's out of game. We would then run The Assassin's Run as a converted dungeon (which would have mostly been about the epic-level rogue disarming a lot of different traps and only 2-3 actual battles. Ask Eridanis to tell you why the rogue was 23rd level and everyone else was 19th!) Unfortunately, I was told that we were relocating before we could get to H3, so I wrapped up the story at the end of H2 with the party stopping the priests from summoning Orcus through the gate and everyone lived happily after ever. So I never actually got around to novelizing H3 (but that was the plan).

For the record, the H-series (Bloodstone) is my favorite set of modules ever written; with H4 being the best of the bunch (for devious DM's at least). Mmmmm, love that battle with 100 Glabrezu and 1 Balor at the entrance to Orcus' layer of the Abyss. And who can forget the room called "Slices, Dices, Makes Julienne Fries!"