Help Me ReWrite Post-1910 History

[WayneLigon]

Paved roads are possible. Asphalt was invented well before 1870, and was being used to pave roads. So you can build highways. (BTW, there was a French inventor making asphalt photographs back around 1826. Learned about this from Scientific American.

Railroads and telegraph lines could certainly be used to keep the country together. Plus what paved roads and highways get laid down for horse drawn vehicles etc.

Now, is the barrier stable, or can things 'permeate' through? Is it a sharp delineation, or more a transition zone? Are there magics available that allow the use of modern conveniences?

Among other places. Say, an attempt by Jewish mystics to use Kabbala to return Palestine to the days of King Solomon.

Yep, I'm sure I'll run into several things that were invented earlier than they came into common or accepted use. This may or may not mean the date gets adjusted; I'm going to pick up GURPS Old West and do a little more research to help firm up the idea.

The telegraph certainly will help, yes. And you have trains.

Now this is where things get weird about the 'dead zone'. It's 1870 there. It will always be 1870 (or whatever fixed year I come up with). I'm going to say that not even the earth-moving magic they somehow managed to do could change the seasons, so the area does cycle through seasons like everywhere else. I'd thought to make it the same day, forever, but that was just too weird Nothing new can be invented, which kinda sucks for them; even if the tech exists to make, say, a crystal radio, if radio has not been invented yet radios cannot be invented there and do not function within the zone. (Since the zone is immune to nuclear attack, guess where the government will evacuate to in case of WW, um, Two). Things brought into it cease to function and begin to function once outside it unless that functioning causes that thing to exist in the first place. Obviously the area is deadly to anyone with a pacemaker, insulin implant, or transplanted organ among other things. If your life depends on a drug invented after 1870, you're screwed.

The obvious 'exception' is that magic works there as well; people point to this as proof that Earth used to have a much higher level of magic at some point in the past, since it was 'already invented'.

Obviously this has a great deal of fun potential and a great deal of headache potential. That's why it's still in the research stage and might still be ammended or dumped.

Anyway, the barrier is permeable. It fluctuates back and forth up to XX distance, since I haven't made up my mind as the wiggle room. Obviously, that area will be a posted danger zone near civilised areas.

People from '1870' can come to our time and live perfectly normal lives and take advantage of all our amenities. If they go back over the barrier, the same restictions apply as to everyone else. People from our side can go live there with no problems at all save as mentioned above and that, no matter what they do or how hard they try, they cannot improve things technologically one iota (though social inventions work; people don't forget they're Communists, for instance). They may know how to create penicillin for instance and have all the tools to do so, but the process will simpy render an inert substance with no medicinal value at all. This is the kind of thing that drives scientists up a wall since there is no good reason it shouldn't work, but it does not.

A not-insignificant portion of the US defense budget every year goes into figuring out ways to break or alleviate this curse. So far nothing has worked.

There are significant advantages to the area as well. Bioweapons taken there are rendered inert if they are 'tailored' diseases. Nuclear waste is rendered totally inert as well. Nerve gas becomes inert. Nuclear weapons do not function within the area. Rockets don't, either. Explosives more powerful than dynamite or nitro (depending on the exact date of their invention, maybe those - too lazy to look it up right now) are inert.

The debate rages as to what will happen if they DO manage to break the curse. Will the lands and peoples that were there in 1921 (or whatever year this was done) suddenly reappear? What will happen to people in the area now? Or... or will a new 21st century America suddenly bloom in the desert as Time snaps back to what 'should' have happened?

This was the doing of a small cabal of mystics, all of whom are still on the FBI's Most Wanted list even though most are suspected of being dead (though that's not stopped others in the past). Most Native Americans denounce what they've done since it permanently screwed them out of what gains they had made at the time and have made it much more difficult for them in the present. Native Americans fill a disproportianate amount of Shadow Hunter and Mystic slots and many are involved in the search for a 'cure'.

 

[WayneLigon]

Yikes, your America post-magic is getting to be a scary place. But then it would be. More paranoia, more violence.

What kind of law enforcement will the PCs be? Federal? State? Local? Will they be MiB kinda spooks or ATF type supercops?

The legal issues of magic are going to be tricky, kinds of evidence admissible in court and all that.

More dangerous to the unwary, certainly. Not only do you have to worry about the normal urban predators, you have to think about the real predators that might be there....

I'm going to look into legal rules but I don't want to constantly frustrate the players. At the same time, surprises like 'Sorry, confessions obtained by questioning the dead spirit are not admissable in court' would really nail the 'flavor' of the game.

More than likely, the PC's will be some kind of floating Federal body that is designed to provide expert advice and assistance to local and federal law enforcement, which gives them a 'super jurisdiction' of sorts and keeps me from being limited as to place. The agency name is still under consideration. It's probably an arm of the FBI but then in this world it's looking more and more likely that all federal intelligence will be under one roof. Maybe OSI. Or maybe it'll be a seperate branch, like 'Bureau of Alchemy, Thaumaturgy and ... whatever would fit for 'F''.

 

[daTim]

All this talk of magic and Russia's domination, and almost nobody has mentioned Rasputin, the 20th centuries greatest sorcerer?

 

[WayneLigon]

All this talk of magic and Russia's domination, and almost nobody has mentioned Rasputin, the 20th centuries greatest sorcerer?

He was mentioned. He should have a place in what I'm doing, yep. Obviously the reason no means of killing him worked was that he was already dead...

Him and Baba Yaga. The Duma will have some interesting times.

 

[Vargo]

No German Holocaust - No Israel. Peace in the Middle East?

Warning, some people might disagree with the below statements, especially where Israel is concerned. I'm not trying to argue a viewpoint here, or get banned, just trying to share a historical perspective.

Israel might have still come about. The Zionist movement (which is a legitimate branch of the Jewish community, supported by, amongst others, Albert Einstein, and NOT some kind of world-spanning conspiracy despite what certain racist nutcases would have you believe) was active in attempting to move people of Jewish descent back to the area around Palestine, starting as early as the 1890s. There were serious attempts by the ruling arab governments in the area to limit the immigration, and deals were cut during World War II by the Allies to win over the arabs against the Axis, deals which were then discarded by the United Nations in the creation of the state of Israel.

Now, since you have no league of nations after WW1, and probably no United Nations - no "official" creation of the state of Israel. However, this would make a great area for a "revolution" of the Zionists against the Arab leaders of the region, and a possible flashpoint for a second World War. Zionists rebel against their Arab overlords, Arabs crack down, other countries recognize this as a chance to grab lots of land with that black tar stuff, and come in nominally on the side of the rebels, but really just going for territiorial grabs, and it all turns into one big cluster-bleep.

Remember that golems are (IIRC) a creation of Jewish mythology, so you might see the first golem army coming from the Zionist rebels. In fact, keeping magic thematically appropriate to each culture would be great. Arabic/Muslim magic would be primarily alchemical in nature, the Christian religions would mostly use Divine magic, Asian/Indian culture would be similar to Druidic (animist) ideals if you don't have access to the Oriental Adventures classes, etc.

Also, the "technology dead zone" in the United States could actually lead to a renaissance of sorts, since people in the area can't rely on technological advances, it might drive additional research into magitech, driving the understanding of magic quite a bit further in the United States than in other areas. Not sure how you'd work it, but it could get quite interesting.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I dunno... I can't see Rasputin as undead. He was nothing if not lively.

I'd probably make him a mortal spellcaster, probably a divine variant on the Rage Mage PrC from Complete Warrior. Something like Tough 4/Acolyte 5/Rage Mage 10.

His survival, then, would be a matter of spells (Neutralize Poison, perhaps), extreme physical toughness (Con 22), and action points.

 

[mythusmage]

A bit of bad news for all you fans of zeppelins in the Dead Zone. Not possible.

While people did try their hand at building airships before Baron von Zeppelin, he didn't build his first rigid airship until after 1870. In addition, the pre1870 airships that got built (a precious few) were deathly unreliable and prone to accidents.

More coming up, but I need to do some thinking first.

 

[sir_ollibolli]

First, I suggest that you read the comic "Rex Mundi"...

On the other hand. 1908 sees the rise of magic in the world. Does it spread out from Tunguska (making Russia the first country with magic users) and if yes how fast. You can be assured, that Magic users will be persons in the background used by/ using the monarchs or national leaders of the countries...

Will the World War I happen, the Crown Prince of Austria would wear magic items for protection? What kind of magic will be available (healing?)?

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

Israel might have still come about. The Zionist movement... was active in attempting to move people of Jewish descent back to the area around Palestine, starting as early as the 1890s... (snip) this would make a great area for a "revolution" of the Zionists against the Arab leaders of the region, and a possible flashpoint for a second World War. Zionists rebel against their Arab overlords, Arabs crack down, other countries recognize this as a chance to grab lots of land with that black tar stuff, and come in nominally on the side of the rebels, but really just going for territiorial grabs, and it all turns into one big cluster-bleep.

I knew there was something I was forgetting, and that peace in an area around the Holy Land of three different major religions would never work.

This would definitely be a good place to come down for a very different WWII. However the historical perspective could be very different. Without a German Holocaust there is no back lash of anti-anti-semitism. A more imperial/monarchic Great Britain and German are if anything more likely to be anti-semitic than the post war governments of those nations were in the RW. Plus they are imperialists and monarchic which means they are more likely to have good ties with the royal families of the arab nations (The House of Saud if they were around then… middle east history not so good). So it could go either way – imperialists trying to eliminate their competition (Arab monarchies) or closing ranks on the rebels.

And yes the Golem is a part of yiddish mythology, so a very good bit of magic to throw over to any jewish rebels fighting oppressive arabs in the middle east




On a very different note

I believe I’m correct in saying that the Nazi party had a very large following in the United States immediately before the war. I can’t remember numbers and if incorrect please let me know.

Anyway a friend of mine once ran a ‘reality hopping’ game – Sliders style. One world he set up as a Germany won the 2nd world war. Knowing I’d spent some time studying WWII and had a more international education he asked me for how it might work… eventually it came out that the Confederacy had risen again!

The American Nazi party repeated their fore-fathers actions and seceded from the Union. They reinstated slavery etc. The result was American Civil War II. This has catastrophic effects on the outcome of WWII. First of all there is no American aid to Britain. Second of all when Japan hits America they are attacking the Union, because they have already allied with the New Confederacy. Between Japan and the Confederacy the Union is attacked on multiple sides. Britain holds out against Germany for as long as they can, but soon collapses from lack of resources. Within a few week the Union is being pressed by German forces in the Atlantic as well. Eventually they sue for piece – seceding autonomy to the New Confederacy as well as Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah and Idaho to Japanese control.

I know a lot of this will no longer fit if WWI has a very different outcome and WWII is not fought as we know it. With magic trouble and the Dead Zone American outlook is more likely to consolidate on a east coast vs west coast viewpoint. However the west coast seceding from the east is a potential alternative. They are no longer able to affect each other, and if anything the west coast is more likely to be closely linked with Mexico. Afterall with any real transport between east and west coasts having to go via other countries they are effectively separate nations already, and governing both bodies with a single authority will become an administrative nightmare.

So possibility for an Atlantic States and a Pacific States. Probably get along well with each other – closely allied and both working to deal with the issues of the Dead Zone.

Just more ideas into the mix

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

Obviously the area is deadly to anyone with a pacemaker, insulin implant, or transplanted organ among other things. If your life depends on a drug invented after 1870, you're screwed.

Why? The pacemaker and insulin implant I understand... the transplant and the drug I don't. In and of themselves they don't rely on anything that wasn't around in 1870 - just more understanding. The new heart that you have is still just a heart. It beats in the same way, it isn't held in place by any technology or kept working by anything. It just wasn't born in your body... everything is still all biological. Same with the drug. The actual technology used to create it is left behind when the pill is packaged.

I can see why the tech wouldn't work but you seem to be saying biology would suddenly change... this has a lot of implications. Not saying you can't do it, and the simple answer of MAGIC is always a good way to explain it, but it just seems a little too far for me.

That said you are already saying that some how the physics of the dead zone have changed... new types of guns that work on simple mechanical principles (ok highly developed mechanics, but still fundamental mechanics) don't work. If that's the case it's not much more to say biology is different.