Help me stop my Player!

[IcyCool]

Why, then, are the previously-created shadows no longer subservient? It is a trait of the spawn, not of the controller.

I disagree.

Out of curiousity, do you agree with my example in post #88?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

By your definition, the following (however unlikely), could occur:

Round 1: Shadow reduces Bob to 0 strength, killing him. (3 or 4 is rolled on the 1d4 rounds later)

Round 2: Sam uses a Wish to bring Bob back to life.

Round 3: Sam decides he wants a Shadow minion, so he kills Bob.

Round 4 or Round 5: Bob now rises as a Shadow under Sam's control.

I don't agree with this example, because, in Round 2, the Wish cancels out the "rise" part of the Shadow's Create Spawn ability.

EDIT:

More specifically:

Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes, one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from losing an experience level.

You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed.

 

[IcyCool]

I don't agree with this example, because, in Round 2, the Wish cancels out the "rise" part of the Shadow's Create Spawn ability.

Really? Where does it say that?

 

[Jack Simth]

I didn't say it was called out anywhere, sorry if I was unclear. Maybe this will be a bit more clear.

Can you show me an example (we'll just use the SRD for now), where a spell has a lasting, permanent effect aside from inflicting or healing damage (ability or otherwise), and that has a duration other than permanent or instantaneous?

I don't think there is one. That's what I was trying to say.

Oh, and I'll go ahead and ask you to not include Shapechanging into a Shadow, as that is what we are debating currently.

Easy; Druid spells: Speak with Animal + Summon Nature's Ally II (Dire Badger); have it dig for you; it leaves a tunnel behind. Or are you saying the tunnel the Dire badger digs somehow fades out of existance when the dire badger's duration expires?

 

[TheGM]

Why, then, are the previously-created shadows no longer subservient? It is a trait of the spawn, not of the controller.

Let me start by saying I've stayed out of this because I feel this is the predictable outcome of an evil-based party. Play that type of game, and you're asking for trouble.

There, I'm of my soapbox.

In answer to your question... The controller is now not a shadowsimple, straightforward, at a minimum his minions now view him as a tasty treat even if they believe he is their controller. At the worst (the way I would run it), they view him as a tasty treat and a different being than the powerful shadow that created them, and eat him.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In answer to your question... The controller is now not a shadowsimple, straightforward, at a minimum his minions now view him as a tasty treat even if they believe he is their controller.

Of course he isn't a shadow any more. But then, he's not a Ghaele Eladrin any more, either, and the other guy's still dead, so ...

 

[gabrion]

The controller is now not a shadowsimple, straightforward, at a minimum his minions now view him as a tasty treat even if they believe he is their controller. At the worst (the way I would run it), they view him as a tasty treat and a different being than the powerful shadow that created them, and eat him.

What rules support this?Does the ability say that the newly created spawn are controlled by the shadow that made them? No. Does the ability say that the newly created spawn are controlled by their killer? Yes. Is the character still the one that killed the villager, even when he is not a shadow? Yes.

To see why the wording makes a difference, check out the similar abilities that wraiths and wights have.

 

[AuraSeer]

Of course he isn't a shadow any more. But then, he's not a Ghaele Eladrin any more, either, and the other guy's still dead, so ...

Death and damage are instantaneous effects. When the magic stops (or the sword is pulled out), the effect remains.

Mind control is an ongoing effect. When the magic goes away, the mind control stops.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Death and damage are instantaneous effects. When the magic stops (or the sword is pulled out), the effect remains.

Granted. And, so, apparently, is the Creation of Spawn.

Mind control is an ongoing effect.

Even if that's true, where does it say that the creator of the spawn has mental control over his spawn? It merely says, "under the control."

Now, you might read that as being constant mental contact, but it certainly isn't required by the ability.

 

[Storyteller01]

The main weakness with dude's approach here is that the town's clerics will put a hurtin' on him as a shadow. Remember that he becomes vulnerable to being turned (or destroyed!) while he's a shadow. Really, a sunburst is prolly all it will take.

That's assuming every village can afford a spell using cleric...