Help me stop my Player!

[IcyCool]

Resurrection will succeed if you destroy the undead first. Are you just saying that it wouldn't work during those 1d4 rounds?

Yes. But see the later posts where Patryn cleared up that it was being cast from a scroll.

 

[Bauglir]

Why, Bob becomes a shadow under command of the creature who killed him of course!

Freaky!

* envisions the creation of a living shadow via this method, and the potential use for this in a game *

 

[Hawken]

I don't know if the DM that made this thread is still reading or not, but in answer to his original dilemma, there are a variety of solutions. One main issue is acquiring the scroll in the first place. Ravenloft is typically a very low-magic setting (especially compared to Forgotten Realms) and a Shapechange scroll should be extremely difficult to come by. If the domain is in Darkon, Azalin is the only person there that could make such an item (since he kills any wizard in his domain that comes close to rivaling his power) and I don't think he allow such an item to just be sold in the market. If it was any other domain, most Darklords would know, or quickly learn, of such an item and likely try to get it for themselves.

Involving the Shapechange process itself, I'd have the PC make a Horror check, or even Madness check, since he is becoming an undead creature and not just some other living monster. That might even be worth a Powers Check. And murdering a family in their sleep is an Act of Ultimate Darkness, automatically failing a Powers Check for PCs. This should put the PC on the quick road to becoming a Darklord.

If he is successful at creating enough shadows to wipe out half or all of the village, that should be worthy enough to create his own little pocket domain. What was the PCs plan after creating all those shadows? Maybe when the PC tries to leave the village with his shadows, he discovers that the Mists have risen up around the village and trapped him there, with his spell ready to wear off any moment, leaving him the sole living being trapped in a village of shadows desperate for the warmth of his living body.

And if the spell ended prematurely, he shouldn't normally be allowed to control the shadows still. The control was part of the Create Spawn power. And to have that power he had to be a shadow. He would be more than just a "killer", he would be a "killer (that was a shadow when he killed)". If he is no longer a shadow, it would be no different than the controlling shadow being killed, and thus leaving the spawn as free-willed undead. A regular "killer" cannot create spawn on his own, he would have to be a shadow "killer" to do so, and thus would need to remain a shadow "killer" to retain that control. Anything else is just arguing over the grammar. Anyone familiar with D&D can understand the intention of the definition of Create Spawn, and I imagine that includes everyone on this board, but a lot of people here just wanted to debate grammar and waste 3 pages of posting by arguing over wording.

The original Van Richten's Guide to Vampires, had some really good ideas about spawn. One was that the spawn obeyed the creatore because they didn't know any better. There was more info on that, which I'm probably real rusty on, but its worth looking into.

If none of these are sufficient consequences of the PCs actions, then consider that the Darklord of the domain would definitely become involved if an entire village is wiped out. Villages represent income for the more financially inclined darklords, while the more vile ones would treat them as a source of raw material. And having that taken from them by some upstart adventurer wouldn't be long tolerated. Aside from the fact there are not enough clerics and paladins to mobilize against the PCs actions, such a force would likely be beaten to the task by the Darklord or agents of the Darklord.

 

[gabrion]

@Hawken-Yup I'm still readin! Pretty interesting too. Thanks for the advice, but as I cleared up later in the thread, RL stands for Real Life, not Ravenloft, so some of your advice won't work in my game. Thanks again though.

@People debating silly things-I'm trying to followin this, but I've lost myself. With the whole Bob controling Bill because he ressurected him and killed him after the shadow took his strength to 0, what is the point? I mean even if he does fall under Bobs controll, doesn't this still show that the effect is permenant after the spawn is created? Imean regardless of who controls the spawn, it is under their control forever, so in my original dilema the character will maintain control of the shadows right? Maybe there is something deeper going on here, so I'll just keep watching...

 

[glass]

Yes. But see the later posts where Patryn cleared up that it was being cast from a scroll.

What difference does that make?


glass.

 

[glass]

@Hawken-Yup I'm still readin! Pretty interesting too. Thanks for the advice, but as I cleared up later in the thread, RL stands for Real Life, not Ravenloft, so some of your advice won't work in my game. Thanks again though.

Perhaps you should use FtF or some such instead. Maybe even go back and edit your first post. Otherwise, you might get a few more pages of wasted advice.


glass.

 

[Hawken]

as I cleared up later in the thread, RL stands for Real Life, not Ravenloft, so some of your advice won't work in my game.

Sorry. I must have glossed over that among the mind-numbing 2-3 pages of garbage that has been going back and forth because some of the people here are arguing over the wording of a power when they know the actual intent behind it.

Still, if you check out the Ravenloft PHB, it does have some good mechanics in there for handling situations like what you've proposed, whether you're in a Ravenloft game or not. There's no D&D mechanic for it, but polymorphing into an undead is one thing, but shapechanging into one (actually becoming one) is something that should pose a risk to the character's mental health or overall sanity.

If you do have hordes of clerics and paladins around, maybe that would then become a problem to that PC in question. And you can substitute what I said about "Darklord" for the local ruler of the place. The actions are still logical. Someone wipes out a village, the local ruler darn well should take notice!

If you are still looking for solutions to the problem, want to update the board as to what is currently going on, I'll still look in on this. But reading that Bob, Bill, resurrection garbage was worse than a waste of time--I could actually feel brain cells dying as I read it. So, I'll stay away from any more of that.

 

[IcyCool]

@People debating silly things-I'm trying to followin this, but I've lost myself. With the whole Bob controling Bill because he ressurected him and killed him after the shadow took his strength to 0, what is the point? I mean even if he does fall under Bobs controll, doesn't this still show that the effect is permenant after the spawn is created? Imean regardless of who controls the spawn, it is under their control forever, so in my original dilema the character will maintain control of the shadows right? Maybe there is something deeper going on here, so I'll just keep watching...

*shrug* I don't think control of a spawn is kept if you lose the create spawn ability. I'm fairly certain that we wouldn't be having this "silly" debate if the shadow's create spawn ability were worded like the mhorg's create spawn ability. I'm just trying to point out to Patryn how silly a literal reading of the shadow's ability really is.

I'm sorry if you feel that this has de-railed your thread.

What difference does that make?

Doesn't activating the spell from a scroll take only a standard action?

If you are still looking for solutions to the problem, want to update the board as to what is currently going on, I'll still look in on this. But reading that Bob, Bill, resurrection garbage was worse than a waste of time--I could actually feel brain cells dying as I read it. So, I'll stay away from any more of that.

So, why exactly did you feel the need to be insulting? I didn't kick your puppy or anything, did I?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Doesn't activating the spell from a scroll take only a standard action?

Only if casting the spell is a standard action. Otherwise, it takes the same amount of time as casting the spell. Per the SRD, "Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the type of magic item, unless the item description specifically states otherwise."

 

[gabrion]

@Hawken-I will keep some of those things in mind. It is unlikely that the tactic will be just a simple undergoing, like eating lunch or something. I will place demands on the player and be sure that he knows some of the likely consequences (or at least as much as his character would be able to intuit).

Yes. But see the later posts where Patryn cleared up that it was being cast from a scroll.

I thought it was being cast using Miracle, so they didn't need to worry about the casting time.

*shrug* I don't think control of a spawn is kept if you lose the create spawn ability. I'm fairly certain that we wouldn't be having this "silly" debate if the shadow's create spawn ability were worded like the mhorg's create spawn ability. I'm just trying to point out to Patryn how silly a literal reading of the shadow's ability really is.

I'm sorry if you feel that this has de-railed your thread.

Oh, I don't mind the discussion at all. I actually think the debate is ineresting and I apologize if I made it sound otherwise. I just used the word silly off-handedly because I thought the topic, while interesting, was a bit strange. Then again, so was the OP. By all means, carry on!

On another note, I will be running my real life game tomorrow where I will see how this plays out. In case any of you are interested, I will post an update. Lets just hope Bob and Bill don't start killing eachother after they are dead, since I won't know what to do with that.