Help me with my player's PC!

[Stormborn]

The World of Warcraft pen and paper RPG actually has an undead race in it and might be worth looking into if you can borrow someones. Most of the ones in Libris Mortis are multilevel racial classes and might not be your first choice. However I think the Necropolitan template would be work fine for a PC. The above mentioned Gravelorn race looks OK, but its a LA +1 easily. Disreagrding the debate about Warforged being LA+0, a +2 Con, -2 Cha is not balanced and when you add the other benifits of the race it easily tips over to LA +1.


I say stick with Warlock, although Shadow Caster might be a good alternative.

 

[Quartz]

Is this 'race' appropriate for your campaign?

 

[Sejs]

The above mentioned Gravelorn race looks OK, but its a LA +1 easily. Disreagrding the debate about Warforged being LA+0, a +2 Con, -2 Cha is not balanced and when you add the other benifits of the race it easily tips over to LA +1.

*shrug* It's based on the warforged, which automatically puts it at the upper end of +0 to begin with, granted. I dropped the -2 wis penalty due to the fact that unlike the warforged, gravelorn don't have a viable workaround for their healing reduction other than tomb-tainted soul (which in turn carries its own problems in a standard group) and are missing some of the other warforged racial benefits such as plating, components, and being a different creature type. Evidence in-game so far has shown that while the primary racial benefits come into play occasionally, the drawbacks come up -all- the time; gravelorn are hard to keep alive. I'll certainly admit, though, they're not for everybody.

They're really an experiment in progress. If you wanted to rein 'em in some more, the first thing I'd do is drop the slam, the con bonus, or both. I'd keep the charisma penalty though, it's there to represent a certain alienation from the living, which seems fully appropriate. Possibly increasing it to -4 might be another option to consider.

 

[Kafkonia]

He doesn't want to be evil, so I am not sure if the dread necromancer will work for him -- but this is without reading the class.

Dread Necromancers don't have to be evil, although it does say that most could be described as "evil-tolerant."

He wants to be tragic, maybe cursed with his undeadness. I'll get more info from him tomorrow about it.

 

[catsclaw227]

The World of Warcraft pen and paper RPG actually has an undead race in it and might be worth looking into if you can borrow someones.

Do you know in which book the race is located? Is it in Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game (the main book) or one of the other books?

What is the difference between the Warcraft RPG and the World of Warcraft RPG?

 

[Stormborn]

Do you know in which book the race is located? Is it in Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game (the main book) or one of the other books?

What is the difference between the Warcraft RPG and the World of Warcraft RPG?

World of Warcraft RPG is the one you want for the race. Basically the Warcraft RPG was their 1st Ed and was intended to be compatible with core 3rd Ed DnD rules. WoW RPG is their 2nd Ed and is a stand alone Player's Handbook and system (a la Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved etc.). The changes to the base system (calling Abilities by a different name, etc. ) are not significant enough to worry about if all you are concerned with are the races. I don't know of any problems with adding classes or other features in, but you might want to check on that if you get into it.


As for the Gravelorn, yeah Warforged (like Dwarves) are on the high end of EL +0. As noted in the DMG, when you gain a + to Con it needs to be balanced against either an equal - to Dex or Str or to penalities in other abilities. I agree that removing that bonus/penalty entirely and maybe doing away with the slam would put it at a EL +0.

 

[catsclaw227]

World of Warcraft RPG is the one you want for the race. Basically the Warcraft RPG was their 1st Ed and was intended to be compatible with core 3rd Ed DnD rules. WoW RPG is their 2nd Ed and is a stand alone Player's Handbook and system (a la Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved etc.). The changes to the base system (calling Abilities by a different name, etc. ) are not significant enough to worry about if all you are concerned with are the races. I don't know of any problems with adding classes or other features in, but you might want to check on that if you get into it.

I just downloaded this from rpgnow.com, so I will see if this will work in my game. If the conversion isn't bad, I'll let him use it.

As for the Gravelorn, yeah Warforged (like Dwarves) are on the high end of EL +0. As noted in the DMG, when you gain a + to Con it needs to be balanced against either an equal - to Dex or Str or to penalities in other abilities. I agree that removing that bonus/penalty entirely and maybe doing away with the slam would put it at a EL +0.

I would likely remove the slam attack only, or go with a +2Con/-2Wis/-2Cha.

 

[Nyaricus]

He doesn't want to be evil, so I am not sure if the dread necromancer will work for him -- but this is without reading the class. He wants to be tragic, maybe cursed with his undeadness. I'll get more info from him tomorrow about it.

I think I may try to turn him on to some of the Tome of Magic classes, who knows. I like the Archivist idea too.

Dread Necormancers don't have to be evil... I think it's "any non-good" is their alignment restriction. as Kafkonia said, they are more "evil tolerent". In any case, they are turned into a lich for free at 20th level - so choosing an undead race to start with kinda undermines a chunk of this classes power. Also, non-evil liches are featured in a variety of D&D 3.x books, so don't worry about a liches "evil factor".

Thinking about this more today, the archivist class with an undead race as a base sounds like the best way to do this concept. A man, risen from the dead generations after he lived in a strange new land. Maybe he is loathe to trust many others except for a small few (the party). He might be good, but has a bad temper and plenty of pent-up angst from his rebirth which he lashes out at his foes (via Dark Secret). Maybe in his past life he was a priest of a goodly god, but now chooses no god, simply his faith in self to gain divine power (his spells). I dunno, it sounds compelling to me, anyways

cheers,
--N

 

[catsclaw227]

After speaking with him, he was considering having a character with the Deathless template from Eberron. I was wondering if this was a +0 LA template or if you can even add this template to a PC. It seems a bit powerful, but it certainly has it's drawbacks.

Thinking about this more today, the archivist class with an undead race as a base sounds like the best way to do this concept. A man, risen from the dead generations after he lived in a strange new land. Maybe he is loathe to trust many others except for a small few (the party). He might be good, but has a bad temper and plenty of pent-up angst from his rebirth which he lashes out at his foes (via Dark Secret). Maybe in his past life he was a priest of a goodly god, but now chooses no god, simply his faith in self to gain divine power (his spells). I dunno, it sounds compelling to me, anyways

This a a cool idea too. I might discuss this concept with him and find out what he thinks. Maybe a binder might be a good choice for this too.

 

[Nyaricus]

After speaking with him, he was considering having a character with the Deathless template from Eberron. I was wondering if this was a +0 LA template or if you can even add this template to a PC. It seems a bit powerful, but it certainly has it's drawbacks.

This a a cool idea too. I might discuss this concept with him and find out what he thinks. Maybe a binder might be a good choice for this too.

Talk it all out with him - hopefully something will hit on his fancy

Glad to help, anyways

cheers,
--N