Help me with some rule variants

[ThoughtBubble]

I've got a few ideas that I'm trying to solidify in how to accomplish them in D20 Modern. I was hoping to grab some advice here.

The first is trying to find a good system to represent hitpoints more as staying power than necessarrally life. Instead of living and dead, I'd like to have a third area. Eventually our hero just can't dodge anymore, he's taken a few too many hits, and it's all he can do to drag himself back to his feet before falling over one last time. He's not dieing yet, and probablly won't be any time soon, but he's reached his limit. I'm toying with the idea of having an additional range from 0 to -(Con Bonus + Level) that represents being battered. While battered, a character can only take partial actions, and must make a fortitude save vs DC 10 +the number of rounds he's been exhausted. Or something. But that DC is messy, and there should probablly be a few hefty penalties going on in there. Maybe a circumstance penalty equal to the character's hitpoints?

Similarly to the first idea, I'd like to find some good ways to handle fatigue besides smiply adding in a few circumstance penalties at whim.

The next idea is contrary to the first in a lot of ways, and trying to work the two together is difficult. For this particular project, there's a government monopoly on deadly force and weapons (it's actually a pre-musket setting). Martial arts training is restricted, and weapons as dangerous as knives are enforced and watched carefully. I'd like a knife to be a very dangerous thing, even to an unarmed combatant. So I'd like to find a way to upgrade the lethality of even the smaller weapons. Martial arts training remains a wonderful thing, simply because the players will always have their hands.

Well, that's probablly enough for now.
Thanks for the help.

 

[DanMcS]

The first is trying to find a good system to represent hitpoints more as staying power than necessarrally life. Instead of living and dead, I'd like to have a third area. Eventually our hero just can't dodge anymore, he's taken a few too many hits, and it's all he can do to drag himself back to his feet before falling over one last time. He's not dieing yet, and probablly won't be any time soon, but he's reached his limit. I'm toying with the idea of having an additional range from 0 to -(Con Bonus + Level) that represents being battered. While battered, a character can only take partial actions, and must make a fortitude save vs DC 10 +the number of rounds he's been exhausted. Or something. But that DC is messy, and there should probablly be a few hefty penalties going on in there. Maybe a circumstance penalty equal to the character's hitpoints?

The next idea is contrary to the first in a lot of ways, and trying to work the two together is difficult. For this particular project, there's a government monopoly on deadly force and weapons (it's actually a pre-musket setting). Martial arts training is restricted, and weapons as dangerous as knives are enforced and watched carefully. I'd like a knife to be a very dangerous thing, even to an unarmed combatant. So I'd like to find a way to upgrade the lethality of even the smaller weapons. Martial arts training remains a wonderful thing, simply because the players will always have their hands.

The first one sounds like the vitality/wound point system. You have hit points that represent dodging and being battered around a bit. Those increase by level. When you run out of those, you take wound points, which are constant, equal to your Con. When you run out of those, ie 0 or fewer wound points, you're dying, as normal pretty much, down to -10.

Critical hits can either apply regular damage, but straight to wound (bypassing hit points), or be more complicated. Say a weapon is 20/x2, there's normally one bonus die on a critical hit. Instead, you could apply regular damage to wound, and the bonus die goes to hps. If it was a x3 crit, regular damage to wound, x2 damage to hps.

Hit points recover fast, like level per hour or level*Con bonus per hour. Wound points recover a lot slower, I'm not certain of the rate. This is just as I understand the system, anyway, I've never played a game with HP/WP.

You can then combine this with your deadly weapons goal, maybe by giving weapons a larger threat range, making severe bodily harm more likely with a weapon. Fists don't get that, so are still 20/x2- they can't be taken away, but they're not as good as that dagger.

 

[tm80401]

I know someone wrote up a VP/WP conversion document, but I can't remember where it was.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Another (simpler) possibility is to redefine the -1 and dying state slightly.

Normally once you reach -1 hp you are KO'ed and dying. What if it just made you disabled and potentially dying? If you are at -ve hp you can either lie still and wait, or you can take an action (as though disabled - only one standard or move action allowed). If you take an action you lose an extra hp. You could also make them "exhausted" too... -6 Str and Dex, half speed, no running or charging.

You can close the loop on the "staying power" idea by allowing hp to be recovered at level/hour but *only if you are at +ve hp*. If you are at -ve hp these must be healed at 1 per day (more if treated by a healer of some kind).

Cheers

 

[Pierce]

Here's the most current WP/VP thread:

WP/VP conversion for d20 Modern

Note that with the WP/VP system, only heroic types have VP. Thus any type of damage to an ordinary will cause a Fort save or be KO'd. Any crits go straight to WP, so even heroic types can get knocked down quick with a lucky punch/stab/shot. The system tends to make combat a bit riskier for your PCs, but it's fun!

 

[ThoughtBubble]

VP/WP sounds interesting, but not quite what I'm going for. With that system, once you hit negative, you're dying. I'm trying to extend that range a little more, so that someone can get beat into uselessness without forcing them to need immediate medical attention. They don't need to see a doctor, just a lot of rest. For the specific campaign, I want there to be a sort of buffer zone to keep people alive.

Weapon lethality was (probablly) for a different game. Increasing the threat range on weapons would probablly work, but I'm uncomforable relying on critical hits to deliver an overall feel of danger. I was thinking of doubling the damage of most weapons, which also means that just about any hit from a sword starts causing massive damage saves. I'm not sure if that's good or bad yet.

Anyway, thanks for the help

 

[Pierce]

Actually, in the VP/WP system, the WP acts as that buffer. Once you're out of VP, you are fatigued. Any WP damage you take forces a save or you're KO'd (and useless). VP comes back quickly (level per hour), WP comes back slowly. In a no/low magic campaign, any WP damage becomes a hassle quickly. There's been a number of time in our Modern campaign where one or two of the characters have to lay up in the hospital for a couple of days while everyone else goes around picking up clues.

 

[Tellerve]

Interesting, however, there are some things that I'm not sure I like.

It appears to me that it makes the knockout via non-lethal impossible, at least from a feat like knockout punch, as it states if you take more than your massive damage in non-lethal you can only ever be dazed.

It possibly makes things a bit more interesting, but I'm not sure that the current d20 modern with a bit of tweaking could be made to fit Thoughtbubble's taste. I'll have to think on the vp/wp system a bit more though to be sure. I did like that they had the massive damage threshold in there as for a second I thought they didn't have it and was going to be upset.

Tellerve

 

[ThoughtBubble]

It possibly makes things a bit more interesting, but I'm not sure that the current d20 modern with a bit of tweaking could be made to fit Thoughtbubble's taste

Yeah, I'd been thinking the same thing for a while now. It's just that I love D20 modern, and I really want to run something in it and I don't want to go back into gurps, which is probablly more appropriate for what I want to do.

Anyway, there were a couple more concepts that I was messing with in my head, that would probablly make a smoother transition. Here's one, if you'd like to help.
Battery powered spell items. The starting idea was a longsword, covered in runes, with a hollowed out portion in the handle. From there, a power source could be supplied. When activated, the runes draw power from the battery, draining it to empower the spell effect. I was planning on having the material cost offset the xp needed for creating the item. Anyone know of something that holds similar ideas, or have any ideas on how to make that work? I'm not actually overly familiar with the item creation rules in standard D&D, so if something's in there, I probablly don't know.

 

[Pierce]

Just a thought, but you could hybridize the wondrous and wand rules for something like this. Use the wondrous item creation rules to build the longsword, then the wand rules to make the power supply. Check out the D&D SRD here.