D&D 5E (2014) Help My Group Tactics and Planning

[ccs]

Did the players pick race/class before or after they rolled the stats?

 

[SmokeyCriminal]

In D&D Adventures League there is an official rule that lets you switch feats and stuff out.

We recognize that many players start out with a
pregenerated character, or might try out a
character class, race, or other option, and then
decide later that it wasn’t the play experience they
were looking for. As such, characters in the first
tier (levels 1–4) can be rebuilt after any episode or
adventure. A player cannot change a character’s
name, but can rebuild the character using the rules
as presented in this document.
The character keeps all experience, treasure,
equipment, magic items, downtime, and faction
renown earned to that point

I bring this up because I think that the rogue would really benefit from the mobile feat since I'm sure he wants to use his magical dagger as often as possible. This way, every round, he has the option of TWF with the dagger and a short sword (twice the chance for Sneak Attack) and move away, or he can move away and use Cunning Action to Hide or Dash to really get out of dodge and set up for Range Attacks. Basically it will give him a ton of options in combat. Also remind him that Sneak Attack is his #1 priority every round and that the phrase "I hold my action until the enemy is engaged with someone, and then I attack them" is Gold for a rogue.

The Druid seems fine. The only thing I'd say to them is that they're essentially the tank. Turn to a bear and stick to either the biggest threat or the most bodies ASAP so your rogue can Sneak Attack, and the Warlock doesn't get overwhelmed and let the enemy waist attacks on your giant bag of HP.

I think the Warlock needs Armor of Agathy. He's obviously always going to get hit, so might as well make the enemy regret it. With AoA and Dark One's Blessing you don't really need Fiendish Vigor, it doesn't scale and having 3 things that gives you Temp HP is overkill. He might not like the idea of spending 1 of his 2 spell slots for Temp HP when he can get it for free. But trust me, the first time an enemy attacks him and he only has 1 temp HP left and the enemy takes 10 points of damage and dies, then your Dark One's Blessing kicks in and you get free Temp HP all while you just stand there, he wont regret the switch. So replace it with Agonizing blast for more damage, Armour of shadows for permanent Mage Armour, something a little more fun like Devils Sight so you can put that Darkness spell to some real good use, Eldritch Sight is really handy, or my personal favourite Mask of Many Faces.

The Cleric seems fine too. Just have them stay behind the front line and bless and heal and only jump in when someone needs a little assistance, then back off again if things start to get hairy. I think a great habit any really good Life Cleric can have is to keep track of the parties HP on a piece of paper.

 

[schnee]

Yeah, I'd let them switch around ability scores, feats, cantrips and spells.

If the Druid is using their wild shape to fight while holding a concentration spell, they should consider Resilient Constitution for their first feat, since they'll be making Concentration checks a lot and, say, if they're holding a Faerie Fire that's giving everyone Advantage in melee, losing that is a huge nerf to the team's effectiveness and they can't cast again without dropping out of wild shape. They really should be doing some form of buff / battlefield control in combat, or they're really not much more than a meat shield.

The Druid also looks like it could be the primary spellcaster. If they aren't using their Wild Shapes to soak damage in the front line, then they might want to consider a respec to Land for the Natural Recovery and Circle spells - that makes them a much better caster - basically 50% more spells known up to level 10 and casting 25% more spells per day their whole career. They could be using Entangle, Spike Growth, Fog Cloud, Faerie Fire and Flaming Sphere to turn the odds of the combat completely in their favor while plinking away with Thorn Whip or Produce Flame from a safe distance.

 

[rgoodbb]

Agree with the stuff above.

Are you willing to change a few things?
Are your players willing to change a few things?
If not, you are probably going to have to ignore most of what's been said above.

Rogue to change Feat. They will only get better and better at skills so don't need that feat. More effective feats mentioned above.

Druid to use control spells more (as mentioned above they have some really great ones)

Bladelock needs AC/HP/Con Help (Quite desperately)

Cleric - this is just me, but I would have the Cleric be the same level. I don't like that if you come back you are a level behind or whatever. Also does that shield of silence stop the Cleric's verbal casting? I don't get the benefit (unless it's a curse) Plus Bless, Bless, Bless. Until they get spirit guardians that will be their most effective concentration spell. They could go the other way with Bane (I really like that spell) to debuff the enemy.

You seem to like giving out Magic Items with a bit of homebrew in them. (no issues with that. I like that too.) That could be an area to look at as well to better combat scenarios or gain more defence/control. Shield of Radiance (Like the light cleric's Warding Flare feature), Shield of Rebound (Like a Thunderwave use), Shield of....

You don't have to make sweeping changes and the PC's don't need to lose their identity.

Hope we have given you some food for thought.

 

[schnee]

Treantmonk wrote about this in his Wizard guide, but I'll repeat it here - the thing with 5E is that buffs, debuffs, and control spells are more effective than direct damage spells.

Older D&D had a steeper AC / to hit progression, so multiple low level opponents posed less of a threat. This new edition, the 'bounded accuracy' means more hits and spells are connecting each round, so the real way to optimize is to remove their actions or create more for yourselves. Opponents with 1hp are more deadly than one with full HP that is stuck in a Hold Person or Entangle.

It also means that buffs that add a +1 or more are MUCH bigger than 3E and feel closer to AD&D in power. Three members of your party swinging melee weapons with Bless will be doing a LOT more damage over the life of the combat than that Cleric jumping in immediately and swinging a mace. It will also end the combat fast enough that you will spend fewer spells healing later.

So, spell choice should be less Thunderwave and more Entangle. And, since Concentration spells are the most powerful and those are limited to 1 at a time for each caster, the characters should ideally be memorizing spells in cooperation with each other, with different scenarios in mind.

--

Example: Faerie Fire has saved our butts more than anything else - Advantage is HUGE. Opponents that get it in pack combat, like giant rats or wolves, can chew through your front line incredibly quickly. When we run into one of those types of opponents, we Faerie Fire immediately and then they fall quickly.

Entangle is another example - when we face multiple opponents, our Druid the Entangle in a place where it will trap as many people as possible, and put the rest behind the 'difficult terrain'. So, we effectively take several opponents out for several rounds, force others to use their entire turn only moving, while we gang up on the ones that are left standing nearby. We just took it from 8 attacks against us this round to 2-3. If we're lucky, we finish off everyone standing and then the Entangled ones are easy pickings.

Since our Bard knows Faerie Fire, my Druid chooses Entangle. Your spellcasters should coordinate similarly. There are some really effective multi-caster combos, and a caster-heavy party like this can be wicked.

 

[Dan Chernozub]

For the time being, though, it sounds as if tactics and planning are the problem, not the actual make-up of the characters. You can help by giving them encounters in which the monsters demonstrate tactics that the players might use next time. Let them win an easy encounter where the monsters use a doorway to achieve bottlenecking - that might give them the idea of using bottlenecking themselves in another encounter, particularly if you talk about it afterwards. Give them an encounter where the monsters exploit stealth, talk about it afterwards and get the players to think about how they can use stealth themselves. Make sure everyone has read the rules about Stealth and Hiding in the PHB!

You are correct, sir.
And I was wrong with the topic title.
Corrected now.

I am using the approach you've suggested with encounters and will do it more, this is definitely a good piece of advice.

 

[Dan Chernozub]

Did the players pick race/class before or after they rolled the stats?

After. The process was standard, except for what I've described.

 

[Dan Chernozub]

@SmokeyCriminal
Thanks for the input.

I will offer characters to switch skills/spells/feats/abilities at level 4.

The overall ideas I've liked also. Druid has just levelled up to 3rd (he was the 1st casualty) - I think his tanking will definitely improve with Barkskin.

Warlock feels to me all over the place a bit to me, but I don't think I'm competent enough to discuss it with him. This kind of advice is exactly why I made this post. He is considering Medium Armor on lvl4 - what do you think of it?

Regarding Cleric - they want to buy him splint mail and put him more to the frontline, because of the high AC. Won't comment on that to them, I think this is something they should figure out themselves. I am planning to showcase buff value to them soon by an encounter with a group of goblinoids.

@rgoodbb
You definitely gave me food for thought.

Regarding Silence Shield - it is not strictly a curse, but definitely not as no-brainer as a simple +1 shield would be.

What do you suggest to help Warlock in terms of defence without stat changes?

 

[rgoodbb]

Without stat changes, take Smokey's advice re Mage Armor, AoA and Dark One's Blessing

The next beast to slay is a displacer beast. Get the druid to craft from it (with time, money and maybe a quest) a Cloak of Displacement for the warlock or something like that. That would certainly help.

Shield of Faith from the Cleric would also add 2 to AC but then no Bless

 

[Dan Chernozub]

It also means that buffs that add a +1 or more are MUCH bigger than 3E and feel closer to AD&D in power. Three members of your party swinging melee weapons with Bless will be doing a LOT more damage over the life of the combat than that Cleric jumping in immediately and swinging a mace. It will also end the combat fast enough that you will spend fewer spells healing later.

This is an interesting statement. A Math One, I would say.

With the average damage of the rest of the party being around 45, adding average +2.5 to their to hit rolls results in 5.625 extra DPR. (Regardless of the enemy AC).

DPR of swinging a Mace with an average damage of 6.5 (1d6+3) depends on the opposition AC.

With enemy AC10 and higher, the Bless will be better all the time. But Bless takes resources, swinging does not.

Also, we need to take into account, that with an increase in AC, total DPR goes down, so we should look at the relative numbers, not absolute.

For example, against AC 13, Party DPR(mace) is 33.5, DPR(bless) is 34.9. A minor difference of 4.2%
But it gets better. At AC 17, DPRm is 23.2, DPRb is 28.1. 11.7% difference.
And the tougher opposition, the better. Against AC 20 it gives 23.8% higher damage output.


So while generally true - Bless is usually better than swinging a mace, but, against softer opponents, it might not be worth the slot/concentration.