Help my Kobolds spank my players

[Celebrim]

You also have an entirely manual-triggered series of traps... You know that most any of those traps could be triggered through pressure points, trickery, etc?

Sure, but as I explained, the manual triggers are usually both more believable and more useful in these cases. The kobolds aren't rich, and they have to live in their own death trapped home. You don't want to fill your own home with a bunch of pressure plates, because sooner or later someone is going to forget and step on one. Likewise, you don't want to have pits that are delicately balanced so that they go off at exactly 80 lbs of weight, but not less, because sooner or later someone will forget and carry dinner in a sack, or give his neighbor a hug and blammo cousin joe got killed. And besides, even if that's how you designed it, next year or the next the trigger will have deteriorated and it will go off just when everyone was getting used to the idea that that corridor was safe.

I go for extremely high versimilitude and minimal metagaming in my designs.

Also, the wonderful things Kobolds get? Level -3 CR for NPC classses gives you the ability to have some pretty skilled warriors at your disposal

One of the assumptions here is that the kobolds are 'stock' simple weak kobolds of the sort that would be conventional translations from the original 1e stat block. The 3e SRD lair description is pretty close save that kobolds, being originally 1/2 HD, should be mostly 1st level commoners and only say 1 in 10 kobolds are actually 1st level warriors. The kobolds will have a few mid level leaders, and some dangerous pets in the form of dire weasels (good for tracking with, it occurs to me at the moment), but for the most part for the purposes of this excercise, they are supposed to be ordinary and easily slaughtered. The purpose of the excercise is not to demonstrate that high level characters are dangerous and resourceful. The purpose is to demonstrate that a bunch of 1st level commoners are dangerous if you provide them with the right sort of resources and defences.

Now you're making me want to build the Cradle of Drakes, the capital of Kobold culture, with all of its trappings.

What I've been describing so far is a large tribe - roughly 400 kobolds and their leaders - with resources that are on the high end of average. This is sufficient to challenge 6th-9th level characters. It's not sufficient to challenge a higher level party, which would require more of a 'capital of kobold culture' - say 3-5 full tribes living in mostly dormant volcano with higher than normal proportions of leader types, suitably evil scaled up defenses (the lake is now boiling, pit traps drop you into pools of boiling mud, porticulus and falling blocks made of razor sharp obsidian, the kobolds don't have coal but they do have tar and gasoline, etc.), more dangerous pets and allies, containing a full temple complex, led by a council of sorcerers and worshipping a dragon, naga, or similarly powerful figure. Or if not a volcano, then living in the ice caves of massive glacier would also work. Or if not that, then they live in an underground mushroom swamp and are masters of manipulating their fungal domain - yellow mold bombs away!

 

[Loonook]

Sure, but as I explained, the manual triggers are usually both more believable and more useful in these cases. The kobolds aren't rich, and they have to live in their own death trapped home. You don't want to fill your own home with a bunch of pressure plates, because sooner or later someone is going to forget and step on one. Likewise, you don't want to have pits that are delicately balanced so that they go off at exactly 80 lbs of weight, but not less, because sooner or later someone will forget and carry dinner in a sack, or give his neighbor a hug and blammo cousin joe got killed. And besides, even if that's how you designed it, next year or the next the trigger will have deteriorated and it will go off just when everyone was getting used to the idea that that corridor was safe.

I go for extremely high versimilitude and minimal metagaming

There is no lack of verisimilitude in my description. The multitude of limbless from toepopper mines in old battlefields covered in mud exposed to the elements can attest to that. The problem is that you do not have the mindset of the individual who lives near a hazard.

I lived in a location growing up where there were a goodly amount of trappers, hunters, rockfalls, and even nuts in the hills who stilled moonshine or grew various illicit crops. My grandfather took me around and demonstrated the dangers, took me to the old family plot and pointed out Uncle Jon
who died exploring mineshafts, Aunt Lucy who took a rockslide and broke her back living as an invalid for the rest of her short life, the family pets under trees or river rocks killed by mounrain cat, hunter's traps... And then there were the living.


Let me tell you that finding out at the age of five that a person you
consider likened unto G-d Himself is missing an eye due to lack of care or that your cousin Whohaveyou is missing a leg, this one is sick due to exposure, etc. makes you realize that caution should be taken seriously. And the only "adventurers" most Hillfolk worry about wear badges

What I've been describing so far is a large tribe - roughly 400 kobolds and their leaders - with resources that are on the high end of average. This is sufficient to challenge 6th-9th level characters. It's not sufficient to challenge a higher level party, which would require more of a 'capital of kobold culture' - say 3-5 full tribes living in mostly dormant volcano with higher than normal proportions of leader types, suitably evil scaled up defenses (the lake is now boiling, pit traps drop you into pools of boiling mud, porticulus and falling blocks made of razor sharp obsidian, the kobolds don't have coal but they do have tar and gasoline, etc.), more dangerous pets and allies, containing a full temple complex, led by a council of sorcerers and worshipping a dragon, naga, or similarly powerful figure. Or if not a volcano, then living in the ice caves of massive glacier would also work. Or if not that, then they live in an underground mushroom swamp and are masters of manipulating their fungal domain - yellow mold bombs away!

I think that your ideas still require that the Kobolds need a living threat about that is not a Kobold.

Will write more when I get to a pc... That last response really took it out on my thumbs.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Celebrim]

[MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION] - Y'know, after thinking about this, I think that with what I'm planning, you'd probably see it as cheating.

I still have no idea what you are planning.

But my thoughts on "merely kobolds" has really nothing to do with the stats in the MM or 3e's CR mechanics. I don't even use the MM (or, rather, MV) for anything other than inspiration (and mining for powers) and only use a SlyFlourish-styled table for all enemy stats, which I simply judge by context on a case-by-case basis. There are no differences between a 2nd level goblin and a 2nd level kobold in stats, but purely in terms of roleplaying and flavor.

I've got no problem with that.

The 3e SRD describes a large kobold lair thusly:
400 'ordinary' kobolds
20 3rd-level warrior sergeants
2 lieutenants 5th level
1 leader of 8th level
8 dire weasels

That's more or less a direct translation of the 1e description of a kobold lair, save that the power level of creatures is translated upward.

If I was running this for 3e, I'd suggest
360 1st level kobold commoners
40 1st level kobold warriors
20 3rd level kobold warriors
1 5th level kobold adept
1 5th level kobold sorcerer
1 8th level kobold fighter
8 dire weasels

I might play with the class composition a little to create more unique individuals, for example turn a few of the commoners and warriors into experts, adepts (apprentices), fighters, rangers, sorcerers and so forth. But probably less than 15 would get such treatment.

If I was running this for 4e, that would translate into something like
400 level 1 minions
20 level 3 skirmishers
2 level 5 elite artillery
1 level 8 elite soldier
8 dire weasels (level 3 lurkers)

Again, I might diversify the above a bit, but really, it's all about the 400 level 1 minions and what they can do with traps and terrain IMO. If you are tempted to throw a bunch of level appropriate monsters at the PC's, you are I think missing the point.

 

[Loonook]

[MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION]: Kobolds are crafty and have the ability to make various goods to sell and market. Hell, 360 1st level Commoner Kobolds have the ability to bring 11-13 gp/week into the compound just through their trapmaking, and could even make skilled and masterwork traps for trade with underworld denizens and even trappers and others who don't really care about the Kobold's specific evil dragon-worshipping ways.

Like little Satan's Helpers Kobolds sit and make their crafts. They aid master craftsman in their upkeep of the traps they keep around the compound. The Keykeepers for the compound who reset the traps and oil their gears are revered, and those who wish to go out into the world as Masters add their own little twist to the compound with their trap.

Kobolds (at least through the interpretation I have seen in numerous games that really helped to form my opinion of them) have a sort of hyenalike opportunism. They would love to move into a dungeon complex or old keep, any location that may have been cleared out. They get the adventurers who decide to come through, and they collect the bodies of those who decide to stupidly enter their traps. Honeypots abound around the location of the "real" lair, loaded with traps and making you yearn for a dwarf with a mushroom hat to tell you the princess is in the next castle .

Of course these honeypots also help to generate a couple of hundred/thousand GP extra every season from idiot groups of warriors who decide to come through and die in the lair.

If even a quarter of the populace is working on traps through Aid, resetting, masonry repairs, cleanup, obfuscation, and general creation? We're looking at around 1k GP/week just from their creations. A silver/day, 3 GP per month for sustenance per kobold gives an amount of food and shelter for a Medium sized individual.

So you are looking at around 2600/mo generated from a quarter of the able populace, not including Profession and other checks that help your Kobold society function a bit better by farming, using some of those traps, gathering, etc. from the countryside. A group of Kobolds is about as smart as any group of Humans; they aren't stupid, and could easily provide for themselves.

Trading with caravans, other kobold warrens, underworlders? Even better. Say goodbye to worrying about water supply issues for the tribe. Need troubleshooters to come through and test your traps? New materials for masterwork traps? Need to purchase some magebred hounds (because I really do hate the Dire Weasel...).

The static economy of upkeep being supported by DMs is utterly irritating. No culture grows that has scales, horns, or fur? Specist . A similarly sized group of humans, elves, etc. seems to have support for all of your party's needs, and is just as ripe for the picking.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

EDIT: Was just looking into the needs of a group of kobolds for water, going with basic levels of water use across cultures. Figure 1/2 the amount of water for their size versus the 'water poverty' threshold of 12.5 gallons comes to an overall water need of ~ 2500 gallons of water. That is around 9 minutes of use of a decanter of Endless water at a geyser setting posted in a cavern 40' in the air to prevent the geyser damage from killing some poor Kobold who decides to jump into the stream. The average output of the geyser post-potability comes to 429,500 gallons/day. This would allow the Kobolds to fill a reservoir at 25' deep and 100' diameter in 3-5 days. Once filled to their hoped reservoir amount (allowing them to have enough water for 600 days of use not accounting for greywater feed back into the pool), they can begin to use this in water traps, irrigation methods, etc. in the surrounding areas. Kobolds don't need a living benefactor; they need an old complex to move into and make their own.