Help Optimize Warlock for Pary

[Xipe_Totec]

Hey everyone, I'm hoping maybe you'll be able to help me out. Warlock optimization is new to me and I'm trying to dig through all the info on CharOp boards and guides, and man, there is a lot of stuff out there for Warlocks, lol. So, I have an idea in mind and I'm hoping maybe some of you more familiar with 'Locks might be able to help me out.

First, a little bit about our Campaign. We are going to be starting a new campaign in a few weeks set in FR. We are starting at level 5 and get the expertise feat for free as well as 3 magic items (max level 6). The party will be made up of myself playing my own variation of the Master of Puppets Build (a hybrid Warlord/Bard lazy build with lots of ally/enemy forced movement, basic attacks, and a splash of domination. As well as a very hefty group-wide init boost), a defender (not sure what, but very likely not optimized at all), another leader (not sure what, and no idea if it will be optimized or not), a striker or controller (probably at least minimally optimized), and this warlock that will be played by my wife (she likes optimized character's, but she's not too keen on doing the research herself, lol).

So, the idea I had in mind, is seeing that there were several 'Lock powers that had some pretty massive punishment by the enemy moving, or making an attack, etc etc, I was thinking this would play VERY nicely with the build I was planning. The overall goal, though, is just make the build as damaging as possible (although incidental control is always nice). However, as I said above, there are just SOOOO many options out there for Warlocks, it's dizzying trying to sort through it all. In the grand scheme of things, I think once I get started, I should be able to get the build going, it's just mainly trying to decide what pact and weather to go Con or Cha.

I REALLY love the at will power for Star Pact (fits perfectly with my build) but looking through the levels, I saw a lot of really nice Infernal spells, so those seems like the main two I'm trying to decide between (although I'm certainly open to other options) and then of course choosing Con or Cha... I know off the bat she would prefer a Con build for all the extra toughness (although I doubt she hits the frontlines often if at all), but many of the best damaging powers seem to be Cha-based, so I'm just not sure which way to go, lol.

Sorry for the wall of text, but with all that out, I'm not really asking anyone to go through a lot of trouble to build my character for me (although I'd love to take a look at any similar builds you guys might already have), but if any of you have any advice on some pact options or in the long run if Con or Cha will be better. We plan on running this campaign at least up through paragon a bit, so trying to keep PP's in mind as well. Any other advice would be greatly appreciate and be a huge help! Thanks in advance guys and look forward to the responses!

 

[Destil]

If you're looking to optimize damage in a party with a leader handing out basics then a hexblade is likely the way to go, since they can get all their striker goodies on melee or ranged basics and have access to a d10 +3 vs. Reflex Radiant At Will that's a melee basic. Human hexblade could still snag dire radiance too. That also leaves the door open for the standard charge or radiant suite.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You might find some of the stuff in this thread helpful:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/311635-optimizing-con-based-warlock.html

However, since you're hybridizing Warlock and Bard, Cha (not Con) would be the stat you're looking to use. That means Infernal Pact isn't for you. Starpact works about equally well with Cha as it does with Con, though (my Starlock uses balanced stats).

The thing is, IME, Warlocks risk getting caught in melee more often than Kherson ranged strikers because of the necessity of using their ShadowWalk for defenses (and offense, if you take Hidden Sniper- virtually a must, IMHO) AND the shortness of the range of most of their powers.

In some ways, you might be better off with a Sorc/Bard hybrid, especially if you want more raw damage.

 

[Xipe_Totec]

I'd love to look into that option, however, my wife is stoutly against playing a "melee" char, even something that's magical based like a hexblade. That's why I mentioned earlier that she was likely not going to be getting on the frontlines much (if at all). Which also leads me to think she wouldn't do very well with a Dark Pact build, but I suppose if it was only so often, she might be willing to....

 

[Xipe_Totec]

You might find some of the stuff in this thread helpful:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/311635-optimizing-con-based-warlock.html

However, since you're hybridizing Warlock and Bard, Cha (not Con) would be the stat you're looking to use. That means Infernal Pact isn't for you. Starpact works about equally well with Cha as it does with Con, though (my Starlock uses balanced stats).

The thing is, IME, Warlocks risk getting caught in melee more often than Kherson ranged strikers because of the necessity of using their ShadowWalk for defenses (and offense, if you take Hidden Sniper- virtually a must, IMHO) AND the shortness of the range of most of their powers.

In some ways, you might be better off with a Sorc/Bard hybrid, especially if you want more raw damage.

I actually just finished reading that thread, lol. There were a few tidbits of into in there for me, but nothing to help me make a decision.

On the build, though, sorry for the confusion, but my wife will be playing the Warlock, and it won't be a hybrid. My build is a Warlord/bard hybrid, pretty much a straight lazy build.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Sorry, I misunderstood! Saw "Warlord", but read it as "Warlock"!

My Starlock is balanced-stat, but as a Dwarf, almost plays like a pure Con build- more HP than anyone except the Dwarven Fighter. Flavor issues aside, I have to say the pact boon for the Starlock is among my faves as well: +1 to your next D20 roll if it triggers, +2 if you take IFotV really boosts your accuracy and ability to shake off effects. It has no stacking limits: if your boon triggers 4 times before your next turn, you get to take the total of all those bonuses.

In contrast, the THP from the Infernal Pact act like any other THPs: you only get the benefit of using one source of THP at a time, so multiple triggerings of the Pact boon don't stack. (I asked about this a while ago.)

 

[Xipe_Totec]

Yea, I was thinking very much the same thing about the pact boons. I love the starlock stuff, it just seems like there were so many really great powers built for infernal pact (and I know I can still take them, but losing the boon on them really negates a good bit of the power) and as well as building up about the THP and taking powers that do extra damage by being attacked or taking damage (like hellish rebuke). Seems like some good stuff there, but I guess I really just don't know, lol. I guess if one isn't tangibly stronger than the other, I can just lay them both out for my wife and let her choose...

Any specific feats or PP's that make one any better?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I guess if one isn't tangibly stronger than the other, I can just lay them both out for my wife and let her choose...

Of course, the Paragon level Feat Twofold Pact means you get full benefit of BOTH. So, if you're on the fence, pick one, run with it, and at 11th, you can mix & match as you see fit.

Any specific feats or PP's that make one any better?

Sacrifice to Caiphon is one of the more popular Starlock feats: regain the use of a Warlock Encounter power that misses all targets by taking the Power's level in HP damage. Since there aren't a lot of Reliable or damage on a Miss Warlock powers, this could come in handy.

Taking in all the above, that would mean you could play a Starlock for a while, with IFotV, Hidden Sniper, StC and so forth, then take Twofold Pact: Infernal Pact- you can burn HP to regain encounter powers while using Infernal Pact powers (and its boon) to keep having THP to burn up to do so. Win-win!

And since Infernal Pact is Con based AND Starlock can be run mostly Con based, you can do so with minimal MADness.

For Starlocks, Master of the Starry Night is cool, and the Infernalock has the Hellbringer. The Hexer works for both. (Then again, my Warlock is going for the DreamWalker Psion class, so what do I know?)

 

[Xipe_Totec]

Awesome ideas, thanks. Going to play around in the OCB and see what I can come up with.

 

[Saagael]

For Starlocks, Master of the Starry Night is cool, and the Infernalock has the Hellbringer. The Hexer works for both. (Then again, my Warlock is going for the DreamWalker Psion class, so what do I know?)

For PPs, Master of the Starry Night is one of the best Starlock paths I've seen. Their level 12 utlility can lead to quite insane results if you have a rod of corruption, and if merely awesome the rest of the time.

Just some friendly advice: As a long-time player of a starlock that had both Con and Cha: focus on one. Its a pain having no AC and needing to balance both attack stats. Most powers these days have been errata'ed to be either Con or Cha, but stick with one, and I'd recommend Con, as you'll be nigh unkillable.