Help with Gate

Ambrus

Explorer
I'm currently working out the tactics for a BBEG NPC who happens to have two candles of invocation handy. One of the functions of a candle is that it allows the owner to cast gate to call a creature of the same alignment as the candle. A typical candle of invocation has a caster level of 17. If the caster doesn't mind summoning a non-unique being does that mean that he can call a creature of up to 34 HD and control it without problems if he has at least half of its hit dice himself? Am I reading it all correctly? Is this as crazy powerful as it sounds? Thanks!

From the SRD said:
Gate
Conjuration (Creation or Calling)
Level: Clr 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, XP; see text
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: See text
Duration: Instantaneous or concentration (up to 1 round/level); see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Casting a gate spell has two effects. First, it creates an interdimensional connection between your plane of existence and a plane you specify, allowing travel between those two planes in either direction.

Second, you may then call a particular individual or kind of being through the gate.

The gate itself is a circular hoop or disk from 5 to 20 feet in diameter (caster’s choice), oriented in the direction you desire when it comes into existence (typically vertical and facing you). It is a two-dimensional window looking into the plane you specified when casting the spell, and anyone or anything that moves through is shunted instantly to the other side.

A gate has a front and a back. Creatures moving through the gate from the front are transported to the other plane; creatures moving through it from the back are not.
Planar Travel

As a mode of planar travel, a gate spell functions much like a plane shift spell, except that the gate opens precisely at the point you desire (a creation effect). Deities and other beings who rule a planar realm can prevent a gate from opening in their presence or personal demesnes if they so desire. Travelers need not join hands with you—anyone who chooses to step through the portal is transported. A gate cannot be opened to another point on the same plane; the spell works only for interplanar travel.

You may hold the gate open only for a brief time (no more than 1 round per caster level), and you must concentrate on doing so, or else the interplanar connection is severed.
Calling Creatures

The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling. Deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to come through the gate, although they may choose to do so of their own accord. This use of the spell creates a gate that remains open just long enough to transport the called creatures. This use of the spell has an XP cost (see below).

If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual you may call either a single creature (of any HD) or several creatures. You can call and control several creatures as long as their HD total does not exceed your caster level. In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD do not exceed twice your caster level. A single creature with more HD than twice your caster level can’t be controlled. Deities and unique beings cannot be controlled in any event. An uncontrolled being acts as it pleases, making the calling of such creatures rather dangerous. An uncontrolled being may return to its home plane at any time.

A controlled creature can be commanded to perform a service for you. Such services fall into two categories: immediate tasks and contractual service. Fighting for you in a single battle or taking any other actions that can be accomplished within 1 round per caster level counts as an immediate task; you need not make any agreement or pay any reward for the creature’s help. The creature departs at the end of the spell.

If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service. The service exacted must be reasonable with respect to the promised favor or reward; see the lesser planar ally spell for appropriate rewards. (Some creatures may want their payment in “livestock” rather than in coin, which could involve complications.) Immediately upon completion of the service, the being is transported to your vicinity, and you must then and there turn over the promised reward. After this is done, the creature is instantly freed to return to its own plane.

Failure to fulfill the promise to the letter results in your being subjected to service by the creature or by its liege and master, at the very least. At worst, the creature or its kin may attack you.

Note: When you use a calling spell such as gate to call an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it becomes a spell of that type.
XP Cost

1,000 XP (only for the calling creatures function).
From the SRD said:
Candle of Invocation

Each of these special tapers is dedicated to one of the nine alignments. Simply burning the candle generates a favorable aura for the individual so doing if the candle’s alignment matches that of the character. Characters of the same alignment as the burning candle add a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks while within 30 feet of the flame.

A cleric whose alignment matches the candle’s operates as if two levels higher for purposes of determining spells per day if he burns the candle during or just prior to his spell preparation time. He can even cast spells normally unavailable to him, as if he were of that higher level, but only so long as the candle continues to burn. Except in special cases (see below), a candle burns for 4 hours.

In addition, burning a candle also allows the owner to cast a gate spell, the respondent being of the same alignment as the candle, but the taper is immediately consumed in the process. It is possible to extinguish the candle simply by blowing it out, so users often place it in a lantern to protect it from drafts and the like. Doing this doesn’t interfere with its magical properties.

Strong conjuration; CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, gate, creator must be same alignment as candle created; Price 8,400 gp;Weight ½ lb.
 

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We've used gate extensively in my game, and I think it's decently balanced for a 9th level spell. If you're giving a magic item with a 9th lvl spell in it to a lower level BBEG, though, I'd expect it to badly spank the PCs.

It may be fun to have the evil outsider appear, kill the BBEG for daring to summon him with just a stinkin' magic item instead of his own power, and then ask the PCs why he shouldn't kill them as well.
 

It is pretty crazy powerful, yes.

Do note, though, that a Scroll of Gate costs 8,825 market, 5,000 gp of which is the 1,000 xp cost for the calling function, 3,825 gp of which is for the scroll itself, while the Candle of Invocation costs a mere 8,400 gp. A Scroll of Gate, core, could basically only be used by a Wizard (if an arcane scroll), a Cleric (if a divine scroll), or someone with lots of Use Magic Device (DC 37). A Candle of Invocation can be readily used by anyone of a matching alignment, and someone with Use Magic Device (DC 30). You get a price break over a scroll when making a Candle of Invocation, and it's less limited on who can use it, and it can be used for more things.

How's that work again?

Although it does have some limits - it can only Gate in things of a matching alignment - so a Neutral Evil candle can only Gate in Neutral Evil outsiders/Elementals. In order to pull that off, you're basically going to have to apply the Fiendish template to "normal" critter, and then the CR won't be too bad. With a candle aligned right, you can get things like Solars (22 HD, CR 23), Balor's, or Pit Fiends.....
 

The biggest problem with Gate is, that it doesn't take CR into account. The high HD limit allows for some really crazy stuff (best don't allow to gate in epic creatures - before epic levels, at least ;)).

Normally, the cost of 1,000 XP is quite tough and certainly does balance this powerful function a bit. It's a 9th-level spell after all, so the result should be powerful.

Bye
Thanee
 

Jack Simth said:
It is pretty crazy powerful, yes...
Right.

The candle can be used by anyone? Meaning a Bbn could cast the Gate spell, yes? :uhoh:

Seemes like the price of this baby is off by a wee bit.

Caster level 17 * Spell Level 9 * 50gp (Single use, use-activated) = 7650 gp

plus the 1000XP: 1000 * 5 = 5000gp

7650 gp + 5000gp = 12,650 gp

...and that doesn't include:
  • +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks, and
  • A cleric whose alignment matches the candle’s operates as if two levels higher for purposes of determining spells per day

Sounds like this candle, as priced in the DMG, is a steal. :]
 

Pretty much, yeah. Although, as mentioned, there is the itty bitty little limitation that it's limited based on the specific alignment on the candle - so a True Neutral candle can't be used to call a Balor, while a CE candle can't be used to call an Elemental. But I doubt that's worth the price difference.
 

Jack Simth said:
Although it does have some limits - it can only Gate in things of a matching alignment - so a Neutral Evil candle can only Gate in Neutral Evil outsiders/Elementals. In order to pull that off, you're basically going to have to apply the Fiendish template to "normal" critter, and then the CR won't be too bad. With a candle aligned right, you can get things like Solars (22 HD, CR 23), Balor's, or Pit Fiends.....
There are plenty of powerful creatures on other planes aside from outsiders and elementals, though. When my 17th-level Cleric (with Good domain) knew he was going to be facing a fiendish Great Wyrm white dragon, he countered by Gating in an ancient celestial gold dragon, which out-CR'd the white by a margin of two.

The DM did think that was a little too easy, and ensured that the gold had geas/quest on his spell list. Before leaving, he used it to oblige my rather freewheeling cleric to accompany him for some intensive training in discipline on the celestial planes, after which he did become a little more focused.
 

Piratecat said:
It may be fun to have the evil outsider appear, kill the BBEG for daring to summon him with just a stinkin' magic item instead of his own power, and then ask the PCs why he shouldn't kill them as well.
That might be possible if the owner of the candle was foolish enough to call a creature with more hit dice than he could control. Assuming though that the owner is smart enough to only call a single creature for an "immediate task" such as combat and has at least half the creature's hit dice then the evil outsider in question won't be free to cop an attitude or do anything beyond what the candle owner has ordered it to do. That's right mister Pit Fiend; you'd better bow down and kiss my 9th level butt. :]

Now if the evil outsider takes it all personal-like and wants to nurse a grudge against the upstart who called and controlled him once he's back home in the hells, well that's his call. :heh:
MarkB said:
The DM did think that was a little too easy, and ensured that the gold had geas/quest on his spell list. Before leaving, he used it to oblige my rather freewheeling cleric to accompany him for some intensive training in discipline on the celestial planes, after which he did become a little more focused.
Again, as long as your cleric had at least half the hit-dice of the celestial gold dragon then the dragon wouldn't have had the ability to cast geas without your cleric's permission since he was controlled.

Am I wrong? To me, being controlled means called creatures don't get to make demands of the caller and don't get to do anything that the caller doesn't permit. I would have been upset if a DM tried pulling something similar to what your's did on me. It wasn't your fault if you were clever and ressourceful enough to best his little dragon.
Jack Simth said:
A Candle of Invocation can be readily used by anyone of a matching alignment, and someone with Use Magic Device (DC 30).
The only class specific aspect of the candle is that a cleric whose alignment matches the candle’s operates as if two levels higher for purposes of determining spells per day if he burns the candle during or just prior to his spell preparation time. The Use Magic Device skill isn't necessary for using the gate aspect of the candle; anyone can use it in that way. Am I wrong?
 
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Ambrus said:
Again, as long as your cleric had at least half the hit-dice of the celestial gold dragon then the dragon wouldn't have had the ability to cast geas without your cleric's permission since he was controlled.

Am I wrong? To me, being controlled means called creatures don't get to make demands of the caller and don't get to do anything that the caller doesn't permit. I would have been upset if a DM tried pulling something similar to what your's did on me. It wasn't your fault if you were clever and ressourceful enough to best his little dragon.
True enough, but it wasn't actually something I was particularly opposed to. I don't imagine a celestial gold dragon is ever particularly happy about being hauled onto the material plane to fight for a mortal, and I preferred for my character to pay off his 'debt' right away, rather than waiting around to see what fate an annoyed extraplanar ancient dragon might choose to visit upon him.
 

MarkB said:
When my 17th-level Cleric (with Good domain) knew he was going to be facing a fiendish Great Wyrm white dragon, he countered by Gating in an ancient celestial gold dragon, which out-CR'd the white by a margin of two.
Why stop at one template? You could have piled on a whole slew of templates, pumping that CR up into the 40s.
 

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