Help with Grab and Immobilize please

[Cedric]

So...I'm just trying to understand this.

If I grab someone, they can choose not to even bother trying to escape and they can continue fighting me and others around me without penalty, as long as they are willing to stand in one spot to do so?

Furthermore, they do not lose nor are they penalized any defenses while grabbed?

Their Reflex defense for instance, would be unaffected?

Is this right? Am I missing something?

 

[James McMurray]

You're right. If you want to do more than hold them in place you'll need to restrain them. Have your character bring manacles or rope along, and tell the GM how you're restraining the opponent. With luck he'll check out page 42, get a damage rating and DC, then tell you to roll the dice.

 

[Cedric]

Huh...well, go figure.

Thanks!

 

[ExploderWizard]

You're right. If you want to do more than hold them in place you'll need to restrain them. Have your character bring manacles or rope along, and tell the GM how you're restraining the opponent. With luck he'll check out page 42, get a damage rating and DC, then tell you to roll the dice.

Of course you won't be able to restrain your grabbed foe until it is reduced to 0 hit points anyway. Page 42 is a handy little refererence that reinforces the basic principle that anything can be expressed as damage.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Of course you won't be able to restrain your grabbed foe until it is reduced to 0 hit points anyway.

Page Number and reference for "hit point total trumps DM common sense, please"

 

[James McMurray]

I'll see your page 42 = all is hit points and raise you PHB page 277. If everything was meant to be equated to hit points, conditions wouldn't exist.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Page Number and reference for "hit point total trumps DM common sense, please"

Common sense has nothing to do with it. Common sense says that if I hit with a spell called Sleep then the target falls asleep, but that isn't what happens now is it? If the spell was named Lethargy then the effects of the spell would make more sense.

 

[James McMurray]

Why doesn't Sleep do hit point damage, if everything is to be represented by hit point damage?

Yes, you could say "ok, you try to grab him and do 6 damage, but that's not enough to put him at 0 so you fail to restrain him. But at that point you're a) being a jerk and b) stifling player creativity so nobody will try to do anything but beat people up. Combat powers are easier to pull off and better at stopping the enemy than page 42. If you make it so that hit points are all that matter, nobody will every try anything interesting.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Why doesn't Sleep do hit point damage, if everything is to be represented by hit point damage?

Yes, you could say "ok, you try to grab him and do 6 damage, but that's not enough to put him at 0 so you fail to restrain him. But at that point you're a) being a jerk and b) stifling player creativity so nobody will try to do anything but beat people up. Combat powers are easier to pull off and better at stopping the enemy than page 42. If you make it so that hit points are all that matter, nobody will every try anything interesting.

I completely agree with that philosophy which is why I prefer systems that embrace it.