Help with Magic item Pricing?

[Dimensional]

HI

A player recently came to me with some MAgic item requests, and I'm not sure how to begin pricing them

1) A helm of leadership - adding a value directly to the characters leadership score(only useful for characters with leadership.
the player was looking for a +5 which I think is quite large and should be quite expensive. and my initial of the top of my head price was 10000gp. but he argues that as it's not going to affect his cohort, only his followers. and thus not that powerful. scince my initial price was just a random guess I don't know how to judge it. any idea's

2) +1 or +2 to his level for Bardic music abilities - that is he would gain the increased effects of abilities earlier but would not gain the abilities earlier.
my initial feel on this was bonus squared *1000.

3) a PLayer wants a minor energy effect on his weapon but doesn't want the full +1 energy enhancment - The player specificaly is the bard for question 2 and wants the sword he uses to resonate when he sings and do +1 sonic damage. but again he doesn't want to play to much. I peged it at +500 to 750 gp with the caveat that he couldn't then enhance it with other energy types for lots of cheap damage.

Thanks for any help

Jeremy

 

[Infiniti2000]

1. I'm probably the wrong person to ask because I don't allow Leadership, but I think 5 million gold pieces for +5 to Leadership would be okay. 1 million per +1. Sounds fair, right? Seriously, though, I wouldn't allow the +5 at any price.

2. I don't think I understand what you mean, but my answer is fairly simple. Price it either as a caster level increase (ala the orange prism ioun stone) or just plain don't allow it.

3. Finally, a reasonable request. 750gp is too low. I'd make it 5000gp. Understand that this will NOT affect the total enhancement of the weapon and thus be a lot more versatile and useful than, say, +1 flaming. In effect, it's equivalent to half a feat (Weapon Specialization) except that it bypasses DR and very few creatures have sonic resistance. Someone around here (Frank?) has said that it's a general guideline to price feats at 10K, so half that would be 5K.

 

[Bad Paper]

#1) How about telling your player to get off his butt and earn some followers? No? OK, then I would allow this with nothing short of a wish. I would likely distort the wish, making the PC's followers ham-fisted buffoons. Think Adolf Hitler and his Sturmabteilung. Eventually, his cult of personality will be viewed as a threat by a few NPCs, setting the stage for bloody conflict. There's some leadership for you!

#2) Yeah, I liken this to a caster-level increase, but it's not as powerful as one. Let's apply the "niche" discount to i2k's suggestion. How about 25k for a +1? 100k for +2?

#3) If he essentially wants slotless energy damage, then yeah, the neighborhood of 4k to 6k is about right. Note that every weapon special ability in the rules has a +N bonus, unlike armor/shield, which can have things like silent moves or energy resistance for a simple gold-piece surcharge.

 

[brehobit]

1)
Followers are fairly useless from a power-gaming viewpoint. (Not Cohorts mind). So unless this guy is abusing followers badly, I'd give the +5 to leadership for something around 12,500. I mean a +10 to CHR (if allowed) would be 100,000. That would do the same and MUCH more. Perhaps don't let it stack with enhancement bonuses to CHR. But I really see this as an RPG thing. Perhaps a 12,500 donation to the right causes and some quality role-playing would get him the +5 non-magic leadership bonus? Something like that.

2) Don't understand.

3) Icky hard. Let's say 500GP * total of other bonuses squared. So a +2 holy (+4 total) would be +8,000.

 

[Dimensional]

first
Thanks for comments

1)why the problems with a magic item enhancing leadership? am I missing some huge exploit?
Perhaps +5 is to much I'll agree with that. but +3 is the equivalent of a +6 item of Cha at 36000gp. and with the example of the circlet of persausion at 4500gp it's clear that subsets of the cha bonus are worth less. so it shouild lie somewhere between 4500gp and 36000gp.

2) I seem to have explained this badly. The bardic music abilities - inspire courage, inspire greatness and inspire heroics all get better at higher levels. the player wants to gain these extra improvments earlier. for instance gain the extra +1/+1 on inspire courage at lvl 7 instead of at lvl 8.
to me it's worth much less than 1 CL increase. but how much less? dunno it seems people think it's more valuable than i do.

3) BreHobit I like you suggestion I'll go with that. thanks

 

[Snowy]

with regards the bardic music increase there's a 1st level spell in complete arcane? that is a swift action and increases the bonus produced by bardic music, that sounds like a good start.

I have included special material properties for weapons in a previous campaign ( firesteel and icesteel I think they were called ) that gave +1 cold or fire respectively I priced them as per the special material guidelines for adamantine and mithril etc I think I set it the same as mithril but I might be wrong. Really speaking its somewhere less effective than a +1 magic bonus to the weapon as it doesn't add to attak rolls but better than half the cost as it can later be enchanted and (depending on how you describe it) wont go away in an antimagic field etc.

Leadership, I've never seen used as our games had too many players normally let alone getting more characters involved. I think you are on the right lines with the charisma bonus with reductions, there is a rod of rulership? that provides a leadership bonus or possibly it just dominates everyone. no help for that one here i'm afraid.

 

[Matafuego]

Hello!

I'd like to contribute to this conversation.

1) A Helm of Leadership.

It sounds like a great idea. In fact, I believe there's some RP solution to this that is waaaay better than crafting the thing for yourself, since I believe you're the DM and you can make it happen.
Maybe instead of crafting a +x leadership magic thing let him research about historical helmets in your world and do a quest for one of them. THAT should give him a bonus to Leadership (+5? "He has the Helmet of the Great Triton King!") It would be like attracting followers cause you took the sword out of the stone.
Or maybe tell him that one of the Material components of the "Leadership Helmet" is a feather from a Giant Phoenix that's been terrorizing some part of the world, then the Helmet would grant him a +x to leadership as a symbol of his renown (and let this stack with the "Great Renown" bonus in the Leadership Feat since it was a quest to increase his Leadership)

As brehobit, I also believe Followers are useless from a "gaming / combat" point of view and that's why I've allowed things IMC such as an "Improved Leadership" feat that allows you to have more than your maximum numbers of followers. Cohorts are another issue entirely.

2) Bard's Ability Increaser

Isn't it just like the Monk's Belt? Or fairly similar? I would base the item upon this object:

Belt, Monk’s

This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.

Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, righteous might or transformation; Price 13,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Hope this helps!

Lucas

 

[pawsplay]

a +5 leadership score is equivalent to a +10 Cha for a specific purpose. For comparison, most of the Leadership modifiers for special circumstances are +1 to +3. I would be very leery. Also, keep in mind that cohorts are still limited by level.

 

[Bad Paper]

1)why the problems with a magic item enhancing leadership?

because it breaks the metagame. You get followers because of your reputation. How can putting on a hat make you more famous? Going on a quest for the Helm of the Great Triton King, for example, may enhance your reputation, but making something in your basement and putting it on? How about a tin-foil hat?

You have to come up with a very good reason for the PC to gain his increased fame/notoriety, and possibly a way for it to backfire, since if you have more followers of a higher level, they will be less likely to respect the PC's cohort, and more likely to behave as a cult.

The bardic music abilities - inspire courage, inspire greatness and inspire heroics all get better at higher levels. the player wants to gain these extra improvments earlier.

If you tell the PC to go out and adventure, he probably will get them earlier. XP should be the only thing to help him here. Does he also want this thing to affect bardic knowledge?

I would look at the phylactery of undead turning for ideas. Note that, in general, clerics can turn undead fewer times per day than bards can use their music, so the bardic item will get more use, and hence should be more expensive, pound-for-pound. Also, the phylactery essentially counters Turn Resistance, but there isn't much in the way of Bardic Music Resistance out there, so there is danger in this item becoming subtly overpowered.

OK, I will go lower than my earlier 25k estimate, and say that this thing should be something in the neighborhood of the aforementioned phylactery, the druid's vestment, and the monk's belt. But it's going to see a lot more use! Go no lower than 15k. Make it extra sparkly and gemtastic for a +2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy checks. Emphasize how unique and gorgeous it is. He will have the flyest spinning rims in the 'hood.

 

[brehobit]

because it breaks the metagame. You get followers because of your reputation. How can putting on a hat make you more famous? Going on a quest for the Helm of the Great Triton King, for example, may enhance your reputation, but making something in your basement and putting it on? How about a tin-foil hat?

Agreed. That's why I like the donation/roleplay option. It fits the metagame better and it still uses up the same amount of resources (unslotted and impossible to drop, but RP issues might take it away...)

Mark