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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8621115" data-attributes="member: 93670">This is a good example of why questions left unanswered like what rules to use when a weapon is dropped or seized &amp; the original user wants to recover it.&nbsp; [USER=71235]@niklinna[/USER]&nbsp; restated my original point where there don't seem to be any rules for &quot;picking up an object from the ground during combat&quot; making both the hardline interpretation &amp; ambiguities problematic.&nbsp; Combine those and Take Weapon has the capability of operating on par with the old school Mage's Disjunction spell.Round one<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">GM: &quot;Ok Bob Berserker you are up first what are you doing?&quot;</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bob: &quot;I move up &amp; attack the Kraken&nbsp; with a 23 &amp; a 1+5+3...seven misses&quot;</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">GM: As a reaction it uses take weapon, make a dex save.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bob: &quot;nat20+2... twenty two?...&quot;</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">GM: &quot;The Kraken grabs your+3 greataxe and... eats it... better hope it doesn't flee...&quot;</li>
</ul>Later:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">GM:&quot;Alice the herald you are up next&quot;</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Alice: &quot;I attack this one of the Lich's body guard trolls with my hypothetical plus five holy avenger, 27 &amp; 1+5+5... eleven&quot;</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">GM: &quot;The bodyguard took some good damage on that first hit but on that miss it's going to use Take Weapon as a reaction, make a dex save...&quot;</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Alice: &quot;eek... 12 plus two... fourteen?....</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">GM: &quot;the troll beats you with your precious like so &amp; is that your whole turn?&quot; ...</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">GM: &quot;That brings it to the lich who steps up to the troll in question, puts a hand on it &amp; casts dimension door to go somewhere&quot;</li>
</ul>Even later at a different table:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cindy: &quot;I notice nothing with weapons attacks my adept since the first time I used take weapon &amp; shoved it in a bag of holding... Plus it seems like there is a suspiciously high percentage of natural weapon users facing the group since then... I feel like I'm being penalized for my choices.&quot;</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">GM: &quot;Yea kinda, not even going to try and soften the blow on that one Cindy.&nbsp; Encounters need to stay interesting for the whole group &amp; much as I want to interpret the take weapon differently, you guys put up quite the case for a hardline ruling against strength based weapon users showing up very often from there on way back at level 4 when you said &quot;well does the statblock say they have other weapons cause a fist is 1+strength right?&quot;.&nbsp; Nobody in their right mind would go into combat heavy professions as a strength user if that was how the world worked.&quot;</li>
</ul>Players almost always have much more investment in their weapons but take weapon +flee/keepaway is old school disjunction/flame strike level evil.&nbsp; If it's supposed to be disjunction level scary to hear the GM speak the words the ability needs to be more explicit.&nbsp; Even without the GM using it against players it's a 2 point second degree maneuver available as early as level 4 that hits way above other maneuvers if it allows players to steal weapons mid combat.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8621115, member: 93670"] This is a good example of why questions left unanswered like what rules to use when a weapon is dropped or seized & the original user wants to recover it. [USER=71235]@niklinna[/USER] restated my original point where there don't seem to be [I]any[/I] rules for "picking up an object from the ground during combat" making both the hardline interpretation & ambiguities problematic. Combine those and Take Weapon has the capability of operating on par with the old school Mage's Disjunction spell. Round one [LIST] [*]GM: "Ok Bob Berserker you are up first what are you doing?" [*]Bob: "I move up & attack the Kraken with a 23 & a 1+5+3...seven misses" [*]GM: As a reaction it uses take weapon, make a dex save. [*]Bob: "nat20+2... twenty two?..." [*]GM: "The Kraken grabs your+3 greataxe and... eats it... better hope it doesn't flee..." [/LIST] Later: [LIST] [*]GM:"Alice the herald you are up next" [*]Alice: "I attack this one of the Lich's body guard trolls with my hypothetical plus five holy avenger, 27 & 1+5+5... eleven" [*]GM: "The bodyguard took some good damage on that first hit but on that miss it's going to use Take Weapon as a reaction, make a dex save..." [*]Alice: "eek... 12 plus two... fourteen?.... [*]GM: "the troll beats you with your precious like so & is that your whole turn?" ... [*]GM: "That brings it to the lich who steps up to the troll in question, puts a hand on it & casts dimension door to go [I]somewhere[/I]" [/LIST] Even later at a different table: [LIST] [*]Cindy: "I notice nothing with weapons attacks my adept since the first time I used take weapon & shoved it in a bag of holding... Plus it seems like there is a suspiciously high percentage of natural weapon users facing the group since then... I feel like I'm being penalized for my choices." [*]GM: "Yea kinda, not even going to try and soften the blow on that one Cindy. Encounters need to stay interesting for the whole group & much as I want to interpret the take weapon differently, you guys put up quite the case for a hardline ruling against strength based weapon users showing up very often from there on way back at level 4 when you said "well does the statblock [I]say[/I] they have other weapons cause a fist is 1+strength right?". Nobody in their right mind would go into combat heavy professions as a strength user if that was how the world worked." [/LIST] Players almost always have much more investment in their weapons but take weapon +flee/keepaway is old school disjunction/flame strike level evil. If it's supposed to be disjunction level scary to hear the GM speak the words the ability needs to be more explicit. Even without the GM using it against players it's a 2 point second degree maneuver available as early as level 4 that hits way above other maneuvers if it allows players to steal weapons mid combat. [/QUOTE]

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