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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8622307" data-attributes="member: 93670">Ktraken has the ability to swallow things making it very much like a PC who declares that they stuff the fire giant's sword in their pack/bag of holding.&nbsp; Your quibble over how a CR25 monster could learn the take weapon maneuver seems to be a purely technical dance to distract from the fact that anyone (PC or monster) using take weapon could stow the stolen weapon somewhere that makes it entirely unrecoverable.&nbsp; There have been quite a few who said this was a nonissue already so why avoid it in such a way? Again you are bringing up technicalities in the example, Alice could have been a strength based fighter/martial/berserker/etc with a mere 14 dex &amp; the overlooked&nbsp; herald extra saves wouldn't help.&nbsp; She could also be a herald who simply rolled very badly.Why are you assuming 4 guards?&nbsp; can the lich &amp; trolls not be trying to escape from the PCs in an encounter that the PCs could be expected to handle.&nbsp; Does changing the lich to some other lower CR creature capable of casting dimension door like a (CR6 mage) not remove your complaint with the technicalities of the example encounter while still maintaining the problem?&nbsp; Why target technicalities of an example to dismiss it&nbsp; rather than the problem the example is used to illustrate?She could, but if she's a strength based character those other abilities will usually rely on having a very nice weapon &amp; if you need to resort to citing that inspiration could possibly allow a reroll it's shining a spotlight on the problem that the target could just use take weapon again the next time she attacks it.&nbsp;&nbsp; Eventually it will run out of excertion, but so will her supply of weapons.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8622307, member: 93670"] Ktraken has the ability to swallow things making it very much like a PC who declares that they stuff the fire giant's sword in their pack/bag of holding. Your quibble over how a CR25 monster could learn the take weapon maneuver seems to be a purely technical dance to distract from the fact that anyone (PC or monster) using take weapon could stow the stolen weapon somewhere that makes it entirely unrecoverable. There have been quite a few who said this was a nonissue already so why avoid it in such a way? Again you are bringing up technicalities in the example, Alice could have been a strength based fighter/martial/berserker/etc with a mere 14 dex & the overlooked herald extra saves wouldn't help. She could also be a herald who simply rolled very badly. Why are you assuming 4 guards? can the lich & trolls not be trying to escape from the PCs in an encounter that the PCs could be expected to handle. Does changing the lich to some other lower CR creature capable of casting dimension door like a (CR6 mage) not remove your complaint with the technicalities of the example encounter while still maintaining the problem? Why target technicalities of an example to dismiss it rather than the problem the example is used to illustrate? She could, but if she's a strength based character those other abilities will usually rely on having a very nice weapon & if you need to resort to citing that inspiration could possibly allow a reroll it's shining a spotlight on the problem that the target could just use take weapon again the next time she attacks it. Eventually it will run out of excertion, but so will her supply of weapons. [/QUOTE]

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