Help with Riding Dog's Skill Points, please

[DrSpunj]

I'm in the midst of trying to upgrade my halfling Holy Warrior's Riding Dog into a Special Mount. Since my PC just reached level 5 it only gets the first line of improvements. However, when looking at applying those upgrades I realized the Riding Dog seems to have a couple extra skill points. I'm hoping someone can point out the error in my analysis or help convince me the rMM is in error.

DOG, RIDING
Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 2d8+4 (13 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+3
Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+3)
Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Jump +8, Listen +5, Spot +5, Swim +3, Survival +1*
Feats: Alertness, TrackB
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary or pack (5–12)
Challenge Rating: 1
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

This category includes working breeds such as collies, huskies, and St. Bernards.

Carrying Capacity: A light load for a riding dog is up to 100 pounds; a medium load, 101–200 pounds; and a heavy load, 201–300 pounds. A riding dog can drag 1,500 pounds.

Combat
If trained for war, these animals can make trip attacks just as wolves do (see the Wolf entry). A riding dog can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check.

Skills: Riding dogs have a +4 racial bonus on Jump checks.

*Riding dogs have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.

So, the skills are:
Jump +8, Listen +5, Spot +5, Swim +3, Survival +1*

Subtracting for Alertness and the racial Jump bonus I get:
Jump +4, Listen +3, Spot +3, Swim +3, Survival +1*

And subtracting Ability modifiers I get:
Jump +2, Listen +2, Spot +2, Swim +1, Survival +0*

Which leaves a total of 7 ranks purchased as class skills. With it's Intelligence of 2 it doesn't get anymore than the minimum number of skill points for each HD, right? 1x4 for the first and 1 more for it's second HD, for a total of 5 skill points.

Where do those other 2 points come from? And if they should be removed, which skills would you lower to spend just 5 skill points?

Thanks!

DrSpunj

 

[Thanee]

After a quick glance it looks like most animals don't have their skills calculated like characters.

I'd just use the stats as presented in the MM and add skillpoints from there via the advancement rules (that is 1 per additional hit die).

Bye
Thanee

 

[DWARF]

Maybe they have a +1 Racial bonus to Spot and Listen... that'd make up for the 2 points, right?

 

[DrSpunj]

Maybe they have a +1 Racial bonus to Spot and Listen... that'd make up for the 2 points, right?

It would, I just can't find any evidence that's the case. Looking over the Animal Type description in the back of the rMM, it doesn't say anything about bonus skill points or flat bonuses that all Animals get. And since the designers were pretty specific in the entry with the racial Jump bonus, I'd expect them to list any other racial bonuses like you describe. Still, your suggestion is probably what I'd go with as well, since I consider most animals to have a better Listen & Spot compared to humans at baseline.

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[pingpong]

someone with the old monster manual can confirm this, but i dont think Riding Dogs had any ranks in Jump in 3.0 before.

so maybe they gave em 2 ranks of Jump and forgot to check their math.

 

[Steve Jung]

Yeah, they didn't have Jump in 3.0.

Listen +5 (4 ranks), Spot +5 (4 ranks), Swim +5 (3 ranks), Wilderness Lore +1 (0 ranks).

 

[FireLance]

Don't forget that the riding dog's speed of 40ft actually gives it a +4 bonus to Jump checks. So, either:

(1) The riding dog should have a +2 racial bonus to Jump; or
(2) The riding dog's Jump modifier should be +10.

Either way, the skill ranks are right - Spot 2 ranks, Listen 2 ranks, Swim 1 rank.

 

[DrSpunj]

Don't forget that the riding dog's speed of 40ft actually gives it a +4 bonus to Jump checks. So, either:

(1) The riding dog should have a +2 racial bonus to Jump; or
(2) The riding dog's Jump modifier should be +10.

Either way, the skill ranks are right - Spot 2 ranks, Listen 2 ranks, Swim 1 rank.

Ah! I'm not familiar with the "40' base speed = +4 Jump" rule, but I didn't read over the Skill section with a fine tooth comb. That's good to know, though I'm wondering if that's *why* Riding Dogs have a +4 racial Jump bonus, because of their 40' Base Speed. Then we'd still be 2 skill points short.

Still, thanks a lot everyone. There's definitely something a bit off, but at least it's not my math!

Thanks!

 

[Wolf72]

I've noticed a couple o' critters in the 3.5 SRD are off on their skill points (pseudodragon iirc)