Help with Rogue

[ArtofSymmetry]

Took the text out of the double post. sorry..

 

[Elric]

Working from a concrete example.

At level 1, Illrogue's Sly Flourish is +8 vs. AC, 1d4+7.
Say against AC20.

With Nimble Blade and Combat Advantage:
1-8 Miss @ no damage each
11-19 Hit @ 2.5 (1d4) +7 (DEX + CHA) + 7 (2d6 Sneak) = 16.5 each x 9 hits = 148.5 damage
20 Crit @ 4 + 7 + 12 = 23 damage

That is 171.5 damage over 20 rounds, or 8.575 expected damage per round.

With Backstabber and Combat Advantage:
1-9 Miss @ no damage each
10-19 Hit @ 17.5 damage each = x 8 hits = 140 damage
20 Crit @ 27 damage

That is 167 damage over 20 rounds, or 8.35 expected damage per round.

That might not seem like much, but as AC rises, the difference is more pronounced.

Against AC25:

With Nimble Blade and Combat Advantage:
1-13 Miss @ 0
14-19 Hit @ 16.5 x 6 hits = 99 damage
20 Crit @ 23 = 122 damage total

Chances are very good you won't be fighting anything with 25 AC at first level. Typical monster AC is 14+level for Skirmishers, which are middle of the road. Plug in something like 16 for AC and Backstabber looks quite a bit better than Nimble Blade at this level. With +8 base vs. AC of 16, you hit 75% of the time when you have combat advantage, even without nimble blade.

Plus, your math is off- among other things, you have Backstabber as only +1 average damage; it's +2.

 

[themilkman]

If you have any flexibility on race, it might be cool to try out the new Shadar-Kai stuff in the latest Dragon. They have rogue-friendly ability bonuses (not as friendly as a halfling, of course) and some neat undead-fighting feats. Being able to pick up resist 5 necrotic at 1st level is pretty nice. Also, it seems like there is lots of good RP flavor, if that interests you.

 

[Eldorian]

Chances are very good you won't be fighting anything with 25 AC at first level. Typical monster AC is 14+level for Skirmishers, which are middle of the road. Plug in something like 16 for AC and Backstabber looks quite a bit better than Nimble Blade at this level. With +8 base vs. AC of 16, you hit 75% of the time when you have combat advantage, even without nimble blade.

Plus, your math is off- among other things, you have Backstabber as only +1 average damage; it's +2.

Yeah, I'd go backstabber, nimble blade, two weapon fighting, two weapon defense, in that order, personally.

 

[illwizard]

Hey thanks to everyone who replied, It seems that with the current books that I have, equipment may be the best option to give me the edge I need. Game is tonight so I'll scour the AV for goodies to plant in my DM's brain. Cheers

 

[Smeelbo]

Plus, your math is off- among other things, you have Backstabber as only +1 average damage; it's +2.

Oops. Been thinking about heroic tier rangers at one die, more than rogues at two dice, so my brain slipped.

But besides that, what "other things" did I get wrong?

Smeelbo

 

[Festivus]

Hey thanks to everyone who replied, It seems that with the current books that I have, equipment may be the best option to give me the edge I need. Game is tonight so I'll scour the AV for goodies to plant in my DM's brain. Cheers

Take a look at Feyleaf Vampbracers (probably misspelled), this is on my shortlist for my rogue. Being able to get into flank positions is very helpful.