I have noted that one of the frequent suggestions used to help balance out power levels in a party are for those who are better at optimizing PCs help those that are not. My own personal experience is that many people don't want that kind of help and may well take offense at the suggestion that they need the help. I figure at least part of it comes from a feeling that maximizing characters is somehow cheating, but I figure people who are complaining that they don't feel their character is good enough would welcome the help. For those who have tried to helping others make more effective characters, what has been your experience?
Helping others make 'effective' characters
- Thread starter Gnimish88
- Start date
GlassJaw
Hero
Yeah, I have seen some of what you mentioned. It can be due to various reasons. Some people just don't like being told what to do, no matter how constructive the advice. Some people may think it's cheating. Some maybe just don't care.
I have a very good grasp of the rules but sometimes if that's the case and offer help, some people may label you a ruleslawyer or whatever negative sterotype you want to call it.
But then again, some people want and ask for your help. So it varies. Did I have a point?
reveal
Adventurer
I agree with GlassJaw.
There are times when giving advice can be a good thing. If it's a new person to D&D, or whatever setting you're in, offering advice can be seen as the experienced person offering help to the less experienced.
But it can also be a bad thing. If two people have been playing for a while and they say "I have character X" and you say "Oh... You should take feat X" then they may look at you like "Who the he!! is this guy?"
At this point, I usually offer "If you want any help or advice, just ask" or answer questions. For example, a new person in our group was playing a monk for the first time. He asked if anyone had played a monk and what feats would be good. I went through the books and found a bunch that I had eithered used or thought would be useful (I've playing 4 or 5 monks before).
Anyway... Double edged sword... Better to wait for the questions or simply offer to help if they want it.
There are times when giving advice can be a good thing. If it's a new person to D&D, or whatever setting you're in, offering advice can be seen as the experienced person offering help to the less experienced.
But it can also be a bad thing. If two people have been playing for a while and they say "I have character X" and you say "Oh... You should take feat X" then they may look at you like "Who the he!! is this guy?"
At this point, I usually offer "If you want any help or advice, just ask" or answer questions. For example, a new person in our group was playing a monk for the first time. He asked if anyone had played a monk and what feats would be good. I went through the books and found a bunch that I had eithered used or thought would be useful (I've playing 4 or 5 monks before).
Anyway... Double edged sword... Better to wait for the questions or simply offer to help if they want it.
Thanks for the replies so far, though it seems to me I really should have made my question a bit clearer...
What I am asking (in a somewhat less rambling way then the first time) is:
Has anyone one seen the solution of one player advising others how to bring their characters up to his power level work?
What I am asking (in a somewhat less rambling way then the first time) is:
Has anyone one seen the solution of one player advising others how to bring their characters up to his power level work?
Thanee
First Post
It might be "cheating", if it goes highly into the min/maxing route, but pointing out some obvious flaws, or recommend some cool stuff, where's the problem?
Most people I know are happy with that kind of advice.
If you (not you, the generic you
) don't want that kind of help, just say so, and I'm sure the person will stop helping you. *shrug*
Bye
Thanee
Most people I know are happy with that kind of advice.
If you (not you, the generic you
) don't want that kind of help, just say so, and I'm sure the person will stop helping you. *shrug*Bye
Thanee
Lord Pendragon
First Post
I've seen it work in the game I play in right now. I occasionally suggest things to another player, who is playing 3.x for the first time. She's glad for the advice.
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that it is advice, and that there is no "right way" to build a character. You can tell another player things that you've seen work really well for his class in the past. As long as you accept that the player may not follow your advice, and that it's perfectly acceptable that he not do so, things will be fine.
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that it is advice, and that there is no "right way" to build a character. You can tell another player things that you've seen work really well for his class in the past. As long as you accept that the player may not follow your advice, and that it's perfectly acceptable that he not do so, things will be fine.
Although I'm not quite the target of your question (I don't help people build characters), I think it's noteworthy that people who want to help me with my character are the same people who will make snide remarks or roll their eyes if my character doesn't perform up to their standards.
So I don't really want people "helping" when it really is a matter of them making my characters the way THEY want them to be.
But I agree with the general idea of offering to help and backing off, and then respecting the character that is finall built.
So I don't really want people "helping" when it really is a matter of them making my characters the way THEY want them to be.
But I agree with the general idea of offering to help and backing off, and then respecting the character that is finall built.
For some folks it may seem like "cheating". Other folks may see a condescending tone in such an offer, and balk.
There are others who reject help as well - ones who prefer free will. Not only do they not want to be told what to do, they want to make design choices based upon role playing, rather than upon optimizations. Real people don't make optimum choices inlife, and they find the insistance that their characters should to be less than helpful.
There are others who reject help as well - ones who prefer free will. Not only do they not want to be told what to do, they want to make design choices based upon role playing, rather than upon optimizations. Real people don't make optimum choices inlife, and they find the insistance that their characters should to be less than helpful.
Thanee
First Post
Umbran said:
Actually I'd include that (tho, it is not what this thread is about, of course) with what I have written above.
Suggesting choices, which would fit the character from a role playing perspective is an equally useful advice to most.
I generally try to make both, effective and flavorful choices.
Bye
Thanee
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