Hercules in Deities and Demigods

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: regarding Herc

I'm assuming it's simply because he's the best known Greek hero -- despite the fact that no one seems to really know anything about him.

No, everyone really does know something about him - he's the strongest. For the vast majority of people who have heard of him, that's all that's important.

What I've been trying to convey is that you're talking about well over two thousand years of character development. Herc has survived in Western society's lexicon for some reason which is much larger than anything we've really touched upon. I don't know what it is about him that has made it necessary for society to re-invent him through the millennia, but the simple fact is that it happened.

Why would the writers of Sorbo's show go to Greek mythology and not use the character with the best name recognition value? They wanted folk to get hooked into the show via the name - "hey, Hercules - he's the strong guy, right? Let's watch that." Theseus, Perseus, and Jason just don't have the same instant recognition (Jason, maybe, but due to the Harryhausen films, and the creators of Sorbo's show probably didn't want to have to wrestle with the stuff people would expect of a TV show about Jason, when most of what is known of Jason is from the old sword 'n' sandal films). Those who would recognize those names would be a rather small audience. If you don't use Hercules, you might as well create a new character, and then the name recognition that would have drawn viewers would be gone. Again, it's easier, and possibly more sociologically fascinating, to simply go with the flow and give society what it needs or creates for itself.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

And let's remember, the TV producers were in it to make money, not play with societal perceptions of a mythological character. There isn't anything wrong with that, and pretty much follows the same path storytellers throughout the ages have followed; pick a character or story that the audience knows, and go with that. A large portion of the burden of the storyteller is then relieved. The same thing has happened to King Arthur - the Arthur of Malory or Geoffrey of Monmouth or the Mabinogion or the Boorman film or Mark Twain or the Pendragon RPG all bear little, if any resemblance to each other, and almost none to the original Arthur. Yet he survives in our consciousness.

 

[GravyFingerz]

I'm not necessarily against it; I'd just like to understand the reasoning behind it, which I would hope was more than...'well hes a god'.

Well, there goes my next excuse

 

[Glyfair]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GRRRRRRR

So wait, Hera driving him into a rage isn't mind-effecting? HUH?

Well, the mythological event happened before he ascended to deityhood, so he wouldn't have gained that immunity yet.

Glyfair of Glamis

 

[Glyfair]

Heres a thought: We know next to nothing about the book. Except two characters and the little hints that they have given us. Why dont we brainstorm in this thread or over AIM things we know. maybe then we can get the answers we want

I agree

So, here is the little we have on Hera (that I haven't mentioned before).

Senses: a note at the end of this rather area states "She can block the sensing power of deities of her rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for 16 hours."

Portfolio sense: I mentioned hers before, but she is aware of these events (marriages and cheating husbands) sixteen weeks before they occur and retains the sensation for sixteen weeks after they happen.

Automatic Actions: She can use any Cha or Int related skill as a free action if the DC is 30 or lower.

Create Magic Items: She can create any magic item whose use involves scrying or stealth.

Glyfair of Glamis

 

[Glyfair]

Some notes on Hermes (for comparison with Herc):

Divine Rank: 15
Hit Dice: 20d8+140 (outsider) plus 20d6+140 (Rog) plus 20d4+140 (Wiz) (780 hp)
Initiative: +24, always first (+20 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative, Supreme Initiative)
Speed: 120 ft., Fly 360 ft. perfect
AC 82
Attacks: Huge +5 speed holy quater staff +64/+64/+59/+54/+49 (other attack types are given)
Special qualities: includes DR 50/+4, familiar (birds) (probably part of his wizard class), SR 47, divine aura (1,500 ft. DC 35)
Stats: Dex of 50
Divine Immunities: Ability damage/drain, acid, cold, death effects, disease, disintegration, electricity, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation, imprisonment, banishment

He has a unique "salient ability" Gust of Wind: Basically when he moves he can create a blast of light, moderate, strong or severe wind that spreads along his path.

Possessions: Caduceus (can control animals and beast as if using the Control Creatures salient divine ability - only usuable by creatures with a Divine Rank of 0 or higher).

His Automatic Actions basically list a group of skills in his range (profession (guide or scribe), Open Lock, Disable Device, a bunch of Knowledges) of DC 25 or lower.

His avatar is only has a divine rank of 7.


Glyfair of Glamis

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: regarding Herc

This is an example of what I mentioned earlier - some characters touch upon something so universal that they survive down through the ages, and simply get updated by society itself as time marches along. Sorbo's Herc was certainly not the first depiction of the character as a straight-arrow do-gooder, especially in the last half-century. Herc has appeared in numerous cartoons (like the one mentioned earlier, which I remember from childhood), books, comics, and movies as the good guy, with nary a trace of rage about him. To a lesser extent, this is also true of Thor.

The mythological Thor did at least have a reputation as a friend and helper of the common people, as well as being a sadistic murder of giants.
Hercules doesn't seem to have had any interest in helping anyone.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Triple H mate!

From what I have been able to surmise they used the epic level rules to get the base class. Then they use the "divine template". Basically according to divine rank. Like UK posted elsewhere on this thread. So a different template of every god rank? Perhaps. A class? Could be as well but I doubt it from the above stats given.

I don't think it will be quite that simple: its definately in some capacity a character modifier/template.

There may well be stock increases for every measure of power...

Hero-deity: Divine Rank 0
Demigod: Divine Rank 5
Lesser God: Divine Rank 10
etc.

...but there must also be some variable factors within these 'Templates' to accomodate inbetween figures (eg. Glyfair mentioned that Hermes Avatar is considered Divine Rank 7).

From this you could also surmise that Avatars represent half the rank of the deity!? (then again I am operating on partial info here...were there actually any stats for the Avatar or just a Rank?)

Also,I cant wait to see the requirments for becoming a god.

Proceeds to lift a mountain to impress a god into elevating him

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Talath!

Well, there goes my next excuse

 

[Zarrock God of Evil]

Re: Re: Re: Re: regarding Herc

The mythological Thor did at least have a reputation as a friend and helper of the common people, as well as being a sadistic murder of giants.
Hercules doesn't seem to have had any interest in helping anyone.

Also remember how Thor was perceived at the time of the Vikings. It is common knowledge here in Scandinavia that he pretty much epitomised many of the most important virtues of the Viking warrior. From the standpoint of the society in those times Thor was definitely "good" - but he was also a God and the lord of primeval forces (weather) - which meant that he didn't have to be necessarily benign nor really approachable by mortals.

-Zarrock