Herding PCs towards a certain (swashbuckling) feel. Is it time to put my foot down?

[Psion]

A half-ogre in a swashbuckling campaign?

You perceive my problem then.

Things I would do:

A few comments, springing from (1) A more precise definition of what I am looking for (let's just say I am not all about Dumas), (2) my personal mechanics preferences, (3) the personalities of my players.

Remove some classes: Druids, Paladins, and Clerics are not natural Swashbucklers. Get rid of them.

It seems you may be hung up more on armor than I am. I think if armor was a central concern, using class based armor AC is the trend.

Druid - fits fine AFAIAC. The druid is a lightly armored character who can speak with animals like sea creatures and birds. This fits my seafaring bit quite well.

Paladin - first off, I use holy warriors, so it should be pretty easy to better customize a paladin character to the specifics of the game. Again, while I see armor as a problem, I think the paladin attitudes of honor and serving one's lord fit right in with a swashbuckling game.

Cleric - Aramis, anyone? Again, I think if you subtract the armor it fits right in. Not to mention that, for multiple campaigns, I have lacked a cleric. I am not about to slap down a player for finally playing a cleric.

Even better; replace the whole thing with the Healer class from Miniatures Handbook.

AFAIAC, a healer as it appears in the Minis handbook appeals to a certain sort of player. In my game, that player is currently playing the druid.

Replace the Fighter with the Swashbuckler class from Complete Warrior.

This does not fit the current setup. The Sword Isles are known for their many fighting schools and exotic fighting styles. The fighters fit that rather well.

Further, I had considered introducing a swashbuckling class, but the CW Swashbuckler ain't it. I would use the unfettered if anything.

(And actually, this may seem like an odd choice, but it fits the setting: I have already announced I am allowing the Martial Artist from Beyond Monks.)

Get rid of some races: Dwarves are not Swashbucklers, they are not even sea-worthy. Add the Genasi instead.

No dwarves, no worries.

The Genasi -- I am sort of there. The druid is a wind elf (from Green Ronin's Bow & Blade.)

In fact, I'll take this juncture to say (since it has come up multiple times now), I tend to use Malhavoc and Green Ronin supplements more than 3e WotC supplements.

And Thieflings.

(winces)
Tieflings.

The campaign will turn planar, so Tieflings and Genasi would fit quite well. But I don't want to blare it out just yet. It's supposed to be something of a surprise.

We did have a tiefling rogue in the campaign who got kidnapped. We'll see if he makes it back.

Here is an extreme idea: The most Swashbuckling classes are (to my mind) rogues, bards, and (obviously) Swashbucklers. Require that all characters must have at least one level in one of these classes. This way instead of a party mage and a party healer you will have a Swashbuckler-Healer and a Wizard-Rouge.

Replace "swashbuckler" with "fighter or martial artist", and I'm not to averse to that.

Other things: I am using background feats that will make a character's class skills and feat choices more appropraite.

 

[Psion]

I'm assuming they new they were making these characters for a swashbuckling campaign. The character with the half ogre, did he take appropraite feats for his fighter levels? Are half ogres prominent in the world you're creating?

Not really, no.

This particular player has a thing for monstrous characters.

Couple this with my ingrained notion that players should have characters that satisfy them, and I think you might begin to see my personal struggle.

 

[Happy Funball]

Cleric - Athos, anyone?

I think you mean Aramis.

And to actually be helpful, you might want to give them the benefit of the doubt. True swashbuckling is all about attitude, not size.

 

[Wombat]

1) How do you feel about kibitzing with chargen to acheive a certain feel?
2) What sorts of guidelines would you think would be good for making a swashbuckling feel without going too far?

I try to give my players a good notion of the game world I am setting up ahead of time, but I also allow them to add to the setting (not in terms of plot, but in terms of flavour and feel). This means that we end up pretty much on the same page with regards to the world.

1) All of us kibitz with each other about characters. Every character ends up with secrets known only to the player (or sometimes to the player and the GM), but we all give each other bits of advice, small nudges, etc., so that not only do all the players each know something about the other characters, but also they work to create a unified party that fits the game world.

2) Well, if it is at sea (or at least on water), warn them about encumbrance and drowning -- more armour = greater chance of drowning. Maybe certain weapons of a more swashbuckling nature are cheaper in your game world than in standard D&D. Maybe you want to give them a boat/ship and tell them they have to be able to crew it themselves. Maybe you tell them that particular gods are particularly popular in the district. Maybe you just write up a couple micro-short stories (2-4 pages each) about starring a character-type you want to emphasize in the game involved in an adventure-type you are planning to run. Maybe you have legends about how certain character-types are hated in this game world. Visuals and audios also work well -- put up pictures you find that evoke the feel of the world you are running around your game space; play music the evokes the same sort of feelings, perhaps quietly, perhaps loudly.

Barring all that, you could just say that certain character types don't show up, but, yes, that is pretty durn heavy-handed. I've done it, but only when all my players know why and the all "buy on" to the notion.

In my latest game (also pretty swashbuckling -- I see a trend developing on this board!), I put out a list of books and movies that would make good "background research" for the game -- Three Musketeers, The Mission, Adventures of Robin Hood, Pirates of the Carribean, anything by Sabatini, etc. I asked everyone in the group to read one of the books and watch one of the movies -- most of them did more! With this in their current game-minds, they fell quickly into the mindset and this has made for a GREAT game!

 

[Desdichado]

And to actually be helpful, you might want to give them the benefit of the doubt. True swashbuckling is all about attitude, not size.

Absolutely. I'm running a "swashbuckling" game right now, and none of the main characters are really swashbuckly. Well, maybe one of them. Yet the overall feel of the campaign still is.

In my experience, what goes a lot farther into creating swashbuckling attitudes is giving a little thought to your combat environments and NPCs. Nothing says swashbuckling quite like combat balanced on planks thrown down between the decks of two ships, with balance checks every time a swell causes the plank to surge. Or combat up in the rigging of a ship. Or combat against NPCs that have high ranks in Tumble, Jump, etc. and who use them consistently in combat.

Or NPCs that are suave and debonair. Sure, you're PCs may not really be up to snuff right off the bat, but it only takes a few examples of tone-setting by the GM to get that going again. At least for my group. I had nominally decided to do a swashbuckling game and found myself frustrated by the "I move to this square. Full attack against that guy" kind of combats we were having. One combat in an odd environment (a kind of Turkish bath house, with rice paper walls, stairwells, big pools of water, hot rocks, pressure valves on brass pipes, etc. against opponents with rapiers that were based on the Rokugan ninja class, and we were swashbuckling like you wouldn't believe. Even the half-orclike character could have been played by Errol Flynn that night.

Not only that, after that session (the most recent) I've had a bunch of requests from the group to increase the frequency of our sessions, so something must have gone right,

 

[Voadam]

Think Andre the Giant in the Princess Bride. A bruiser in a swashbuckling adventure.


1 Interacting with the players to get the right feel, i.e. a savage species brute concept is not going to fit in well, is appropriate. I'd ask how he plans to play the character, a big swashbuckler or a big brute. Perhaps he is thinking more dark Pirates of Freeport than three musketeers.

2 action points? class based AC that does not stack with armor as in Wheel of Time? PC racial restrictions would be fine for the world as it would for any world.

 

[Psion]

Think Andre the Giant in the Princess Bride. A bruiser in a swashbuckling adventure.

*blinks*

Thanks for the persepective check.

Edit: And yes: action points are a given.

That said... my UA is on loan... can anyone tell me right off if any of the variant classes would fit?

 

[Psion]

I think you mean Aramis.

I said Aramis. What are you talking about?


Nice catch

 

[Psion]

Well, I just got word that the player who wanted to play the half ogre is now considering an elven sorcerer instead and the half orc is opting for a human paladin.

If I can prime the sorcerer to step in as a navigator-wizard type and steer the paladin towards a holy warrior with the water domain, I may be set...

 

[rkanodia]

One combat in an odd environment (a kind of Turkish bath house, with rice paper walls, stairwells, big pools of water, hot rocks, pressure valves on brass pipes, etc. against opponents with rapiers that were based on the Rokugan ninja class, and we were swashbuckling like you wouldn't believe. Even the half-orclike character could have been played by Errol Flynn that night.

Not only that, after that session (the most recent) I've had a bunch of requests from the group to increase the frequency of our sessions, so something must have gone right,

So that thread on swashbuckling combat went to good use? Cool! I'm glad to have contributed in some small way.