[+] Here's my ideal future 5E supplement

[TwoSix]

Essentials was less complex for everyone, except the wizard who just got moar. The opposite of that would be amusing.

"Why does my 'Advanced' wizard just get Magic Missile?"

"Don't worry, you have short rest powers to let you shoot even more missiles, or even change the energy type! Leave the problem solving to the fighter, it's his job."

 

[CapnZapp]

So something like the Warrior class that has superiority dice baked in to the main class?

Or more like having everything more similar too the warlock chassis where you make two significant choices (patron and pact) and have a list of liabilities (invocations) that are opened up by those choices?

Not familiar with "the Warrior class that has superiority dice baked in".

Warlock: I guess, except my memory of 3E was much more interlocked choices.

Neither battlemaster maneuvers nor invocations are great examples, since they're just big lists where some choices are clearly better than others, with no tiering (except some invocations have a minimum level) and no weighting.

What you want is a multitude of choices, where previous choices unlock new ones, yet don't completely close off others.

[emoji4]

 

[CapnZapp]

Essentials

Yeah, that's probably an example we best leave buried. ☺

 

[BookBarbarian]

Not familiar with "the Warrior class that has superiority dice baked in".

I was mostly riffing on the long debated idea that Fighters should have had superiority dice in the base class, something people who want more complex fighters would have liked to see.

Warlock: I guess, except my memory of 3E was much more interlocked choices.

Neither battlemaster maneuvers nor invocations are great examples, since they're just big lists where some choices are clearly better than others, with no tiering (except some invocations have a minimum level) and no weighting.

What you want is a multitude of choices, where previous choices unlock new ones, yet don't completely close off others.

[emoji4]

I think some "some choices are clearly better than others" is unavoidable, but more could be done to close the disparity.

Anyway, so your idea you would have some abilities available out of the gate and others that would require prerequisites, but minimizing prerequisites that that exclude other options like Pact and Patron do.

So do you envision something like a prerequisite might be something general like "must have a tier 1 feat" or the more traditional "must have the Cleave feat to get the Power Attack feat"?

 

[Jester David]

Sounds like a solid idea for a 3rd Party Product.

Work on a design, get some writers, find some artists, and go to Kickstarter! Get that baby made.

 

[steeldragons]

Sooo, the ideal "future" product for 5e is to make it/turn it back into 3.5/PF?

 

[Tony Vargas]

[Essentials], that's probably an example we best leave buried. ☺

Mearls developed it, and 5e actually reflects it more than you might think. Kinda like how Bo9S presaged 4e in some ways.

 

[GlassJaw]

Sooo, the ideal "future" product for 5e is to make it/turn it back into 3.5/PF?

Where did you get that from?

 

[steeldragons]

Where did you get that from?

Seems like a fairly straightforward extrapolation...and/or deduction...whichever.

The OP wants more options in their "builds," more "crunch," and more feats (even though they are optional).

Someone said, "So, like, more classes akin to Warriors with battlemaster maneuvers?"

The op said, "no, not like that."

Someone said, "So, like, Warlocks with multiple choice points for their creations?" And/or "adding things like Invocations" to other/all classes?

The op said, "no, not like that."

Someone said, "So, like, 4e Essentials except in the direction of more complicated than simplified?"

And while the op seems to have said, "no, not like that," it does sound like "more complicated" rather than simplified is what is sought...with more feats and more options and more "stuff" than just a subclass...more "depth" vs. "breadth," I believe it was described.

So...sounds to me, like what is being dreamt up is taking 5e, giving a whole bunch of "optional subsystem add-ons" turning it back into 3.5/PF, and slapping a "New 5e Supplement" label on it.

 

[Jester David]

Yep - that would definitely be a cool play for Paizo to build onto the enthusiasm for 5e. That and making 5e editions of their existing adventure paths. (I think that would have made a lot more money than StarFinder - but I'm just some guy on the Internet and about to be shouted down! ).

I'm always stunned they don't.
It'd be a low cost project (as they could reprint art and reuse art assets) that would likely sell better than their Core Rulebook.