Hero points

[hong]

Interesting. So, just out of curiousity, does the adventuring party ever have disagreements? Do players play their alignment properly? Because realistically even LG and CG characters could easily have trouble getting along...a skulking, selfish ninja is not necessary.

If it doesn't spill over into outright hostility, then there's no problem. Again, it has nothing to do with whether or not you use hero points.

The is precisely the problem with hero points...how do you seperate the two? If I'm a player with a hero point in the bank, how can I avoid the parody of thought I presented earlier? I may not actually SAY those words, but I think them.

I don't care what you think; I only care what you say. Metagaming is only a problem if it disrupts the game, and that happens if people open their mouths.

This translates into my PC acting in potentially more dangerous ways (when he's not acting in overtly heroic ways) because he KNOWS he's got a hero point that will reverse any stupid move (or bad roll) he makes.

Exactly; see previous comment about Feng Shui. What you call stupid, I call stylish. If it encourages people to stop thinking purely in terms of tactics and survival, I'm all for it. And if you're NOT stylish but only stupid, then eventually you'll run out of hero points, and the problem corrects itself.

Furthermore....this hero point system really dilutes the power of the Luck domain, should any cleric happen to take it.

The Luck domain is broken precisely _because_ it offers a quasi-hero point mechanic, which noone else has access to. I'm all for giving this out to everybody.

 

[DrSpunj]

Furthermore....this hero point system really dilutes the power of the Luck domain, should any cleric happen to take it.

Actually, in my game the Luck Domain gets you an extra Hero Point every session. Still worthwhile, IMO, but now it's not so unbalanced/uniquely powerful.

And before anyone asks, the Fatespinner or whatever Prestige Class that is, isn't allowed IMC. I just don't like the flavor of it. If any of my players expressed an interest in playing it or something like it, I'd be happy to work something out with them. Hasn't happened yet, though.

DrSpunj

 

[EricNoah]

We've always played with a mechanic like this though for 3E we stopped just so we could see what it was like without it. In my 2E games we called it a "coup de grace" -- you'd get one per session and you could basically use it to automatically succeed on something or avoid dying. It took "total randomness" out of the picture a little bit and made it a bit more like a story -- the players could kind of "shape" the story more by making sure they had a critical success when they needed it. It also allowed me to feel like I didn't have to pull any punches with them.

 

[Zogg]

It's cool if you want to use it, tabletop games pretty much revolve around the players imagination and creativity.... though I might add that by handing out hero points as you've outlined you've basically given anyone in the party a free 8th-level wizard spell (moment of prescience) which, were I playing a wizard (especially a diviner) or a cleric that had taken the luck domain, I would feel pretty shafted.

 

[Aaron L]

Then don't use it. I have been considering something like this for a while.

 

[anonystu]

I feel the key point to this, before it devolves into "Hero points are good/bad", is that depends a lot on what you want from them. The two main purposes that I see are: preventing major unlucky things from frustrating a player/game (on an important skill check at a dramatic moment for the master of that skill, rolling a 1, or unlucky,silly death), and for making a more cinematic game.

Hong wants both to smooth out bumps and to have a more cinematic game: having powerful hero points is what's needed.

If on the other hand, you want to be gritty, and use Ken Hood's grim-n-gritty hit point system, then hero points have little to no use in the game: it's part of the choices you make as a GM that make hero points appropriate.

I think the Mutants & Masterminds hero points are pretty cool, although I would as a player, like to see back in there the: "twist/amplify a power at GM fiat" ability. Just being able to get a little wiggle room when you need it (making that cone just a bit wider, or longer, or making that spell last one round longer), is neat.

EN's system also appeals to me a lot: it's the best I've seen for smoothing out bumps in narrative flow (and character flow), but not altering the game too heavily towards cinematic.

 

[Azure Trance]

I yoinked this from a website when a previous thread about Hero Points popped up. Props to its creator ...

Brownie Cookie
At the end of each session, all of the players present as well as the DM will vote to hand out one brownie cookie to the player they think contributed the most overall to the game session. The vote will be conducted in a secret ballot, with reasons ranging from role-playing flavor to the occasional spark of intelligence during play. The brownie cookie is worth 10% bonus XP.

Hero Points
Hero points are given to reward players who put extra effort into the game. They are offered as an incentive to encourage roleplay, teamwork, and player cooperation. These points are given at the end of each adventure by the players and DM, and are distributed by secret ballot so that players can vote honestly, rather than dividing the points equally.

At the conclusion of each adventure (not game session) every player receives one hero point. Then, each player will give out two points, and the DM will distribute one point for each session necessary to complete the adventure. A player cannot give himself points, but may divide his points among the other players as he sees fit. The GM will award his points to those whom he feels deserve special acknowledgment once all of the players’ points have been counted.

A player may spend his hero points to accomplish any of the following, but he must declare his intent to use the points before any actions are taken. Once a point is spent, it is gone and may never be used for another purpose.

• One Point Actions
  The character may add a +2 to any skill check, ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or initiative roll. Up to five hero points (for a total of + 10 to the roll) may be used on a single die roll. If used for a stabilization check the character automatically succeeds and stops bleeding when between -1 and -10 hit points.
  
• Two Point Actions
  The character can negate the effects of a critical failure, making the roll a normal failure. This option must be chosen after the failure is rolled, but before the effect is described. The character automatically scores maximum damage on a single die roll. Each die when rolling for damage is considered a single roll, thus, a 6d6 fireball would require spending twelve hero points to maximize.
  
• Three Point Actions
  The character can roll two dice for hit points when leveling up. The highest of the two rolls is then used to determine the number of hit points gained. The character gains an additional partial action for one round. This ability can be used at any time during a round in which the character has previously acted, so long as a new initiative round has not yet begun. If the points are spent in this way, the character’s initiative is reset to the new segment of the round that his additional action was taken in.
  
• Four Point Actions
  The character gains an additional permanent skill point. This point may be spent normally, and cannot increase a skill above a character’s normal limit.
  
• Five Point Actions
  The character can reroll any roll. Use of this option must be declared before any secondary effects (such as damage) are described.
  
  The character can make a critical threat automatically become a critical hit. This option must be chosen after a threat is scored, but before the critical is rolled.
  
• Ten Point Actions
  The character can force another player or NPC to reroll any roll.
  
• Twenty Point Actions
  The character gains a new general feat.
  
• Thirty Point Actions
  The character can increase an attribute by one. This increase adjusts the base attribute, and is not considered an enhancement bonus.

Additional Awards
Only ONE hero point from the following may be received for any single session.

• Character Journals
  A player who writes a good and thorough character journal for a session, where the journal truly 'gets inside' the character's heads may earn a hero point. This point will be awarded if, and only if, the journal is of sufficient quality in both readability and entertainment value that I can post it on this website with little to no editing or formatting.
  
• Illustration
  A player who draws, paints, or the like may earn a hero point for depicting an event or situation from the session. This hero point will be awarded if the artwork is of sufficient quality to post it on this website.
  
• "Bonus" hero point
  The DM reserves the right to award a bonus hero point to any player at any time for any action, activity, or occurrence that he feels is deserving of a special reward.

The author commented on the potential for abuse if Hero Points can be used to buy feats and attribute bonuses: If a character has that many points, it should be the least of your problems.

 

[anonystu]

I am very wary of players trying to save for only permanent things. Players will feel bad on expending them: if only that guy hadn't critted, I'd have that extra skill point or feat now!

In addition, the scale seems very large to me: 12 hero points to maximize a 6d6 fireball? When is someone going to do that? If you want anything even mildly cinematic, you're going to have give out hero points by the absolute truckload.

And the saving hero points for attributes and feats and HP just ehs at me. It encourages not using them except for in the absolute direst time.

 

[anonystu]

So, by the way, the abuse potential for feats and attributes is huge.

Your players agree to simply allocate all their hero points to one player until he gets to a feat/attribute score. Then they move onto the next one. In a 6-person group, the favored player should walk away with about 11-12 hero points a game, meaning every other session, someone will pick up a feat. Given 4 sessions a level, this means that everybody would pick up a bonus feat (with a few people being able to save for attribute points instead), every 3 levels, effectively doubling the feats in game.

Not in the spirit of it maybe, but you don't set up a metagame system this complicated if you don't make it a bit more sound.

Note that even if you don't push points towards someone, if everyone saves, it works out the same: people will get an extra feat or attribute every 3-4 levels.

 

[Munin]

My 'luck points' house rule:

Every player starts the session with one point. For added effect, we use poker chips.
Roll a natural 20, get a chip. Roleplay a situation exceedingly well, get a chip. Do something the DM likes, get another chip.

Chips can be spent to reroll any one roll, or to avoid one attack in combat. They cannot be used to avoid fumbles.

Major villians also start encounters with at least one chip.

At the end of each session, players can turn in each chip for a 1d6% xp bonus.

I don't hold back on my players, and death is not an easy thing to come back from. I like to think of this as an equalizer.