Heroes Of Battle SUCKS!!! (IMHO)

[Imperialus]

I haven’t had a chance to put it into practice yet but I have read all but the last few chapters detailing feats and PRC's. I must say I don't mind it. 30 bucks for a hardcover coming in at almost 200 pages isn't too bad and though there aren’t rules for mass combat it does provide pretty good advice on how to integrate the players into a larger battle without either making them feel useless or having an infantry charge led by a half dozen second level characters single-handedly turning the tide. I plan on marrying it to the OMCS and using that to base the overall pace of the battle while having the PC's affect their own sectors and perhaps swinging the tide of battle a little bit in either direction. The examples provided for how the Victory Points work seem logical and simple to integrate and it even offers advice on how much the aforementioned VP's can effect the outcome.

I would like to know what kind of ideas you would have for keeping a uniform and logical timetable for a battle that can respond to PC actions without the use of a flowchart? I guess maybe it isn't that foreign a concept to me since I use flowcharts to plan most of my adventures.

If the feats and PRC's aren’t any good I couldn't give a fig. I'm already swamped under a veritable ocean of different feats, PRC's and other such nonsense that dumping a few more in the pile won't make much difference. Even if you were to offer me the single greatest book O' prestige classes ever to exist with pages made from hammered gold only maybe 20 or 30% of the classes would ever see table time. I've found that it is more fun and easier to use relatively archetypical NPC's anyhow with an occasional weird one thrown in to shake things up, and as such PrC's typically see very little table time.

Overall let me to be the first to offer a good review, I'd say I'd give it a 7 or 8 out of ten. It would have been nice if they had integrated some sort of mass combat system but quite frankly there are enough out there that it's absence doesn't bother me that much.

 

[Steel_Wind]

My take and summary on Heroes of Battle is linked to in the message above. Here is some more on my take on the book.

IF you were looking for coolio PrCs and this is what floats your boat, then I don't think that Heroes of Battle is for you. That said, the Dread Commando and Legendary Leader (especially) are cool classes. The Lengendary Leader makes for a very interesting PrC for significant NPCs.

The new spells, while not vouminous are all very decent and I plan to use them.

Similarly, the new magic items and weapon properties are all very cool as well.

The suggestion there is "no crunch" in the book is incorrect. The crunch is in the form of PrCs, Spells, Weapons and Items, siege weapons and new rules for arrow barrages on the battlefield.

In particular, there are also new feats and new commander auras which are clealy influenced by the miniatures game and are interesting.

The mounts are interesting for what they are.

There are many, many examples of small mission design, suggested Victory Point awards and challenge levels. A large number of preset units are provided and detailed for DMs to use.

For immediate effects the most important crunch is team work benefits. Your adventuring parties will definitely be interested in these abilities which lead to a whole new approach to skill and feat acquisition and how a party cooperates during play.

If you were looking for Mass Combat rules - this was not and was never purported to be the intent of the book. Those may be found in Chapter 6 of the Miniature's Handbook. For army battles, you will have to look to a third party product like Fields of Blood or Cry Havoc!

So, to say the book had no crunch is, in a nutshell, an opinion that is demonstrably unfounded. To say that it features a great deal of advice would be accurate. But don't fault WotC on throttling back the pure crunch. If there is anything that WotC has been told lately on their own forums as well as on ENWorld, it is that there is way too much crunch going on in their past books. I - for one - am crunched out.

In terms of Battlefield as Dungeon, the book delivers on the premise.

If there is one thing it is missing, it is a 16 page module not simply showing how a Battlefield Adventure is put to gether - but to actually put one together in detail and show DMs how that's done by way of a macro example.

I hope that such a module is relased by WotC as a web enhancement.

 

[ForceUser]

Feh. Pass.

 

[Mouseferatu]

See, I thought one of the best things about HoB is that so much of it was devoted to offering advice. We've already got plenty of crunch. I don't want new rules. I want ideas on how to incorporate wars into my campaigns, and PCs into battles. I want suggestions. I want plot hooks. I want to read about methods for utilizing these concepts that don't require new rules or feats or PrCs.

In just the first few chapters, HoB delivers in spades. I had multiple campaign ideas come to mind just reading those portions alone. Frankly, I would love for this model--a few chapters of suggestions, advice, and description, only then followed by new mechanics--to become the new standard at WotC.

 

[Shemeska]

Yeah, my interests are typecast. Surprise surprise

For anyone who has the book, I have a question to ask:

Looking at the art gallery for HoB, they have pictures of a Tanar'ri horde, and a group of Barbazu in formation. What does the book mention regarding the Blood War, if anything as it applies to battlefields etc?

 

[Imperialus]

It details the force organization of a tanar'ri army, and hints at the blood war very briefly in the discription.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

For army battles, you will have to look to a third party product like Fields of Blood or Cry Havoc!

Or, for about 2 bucks, you can get Bad Axe Games' Mass Combat rules, by following this link:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=4037&SRC=EnWorld

 

[Ruined]

Hey Shemmie. It also has a writeup for the Baatezu Brigade. All told, there's about three pages dedicated to them total. It breaks down the armies by commanders, special groups and rank and file, with tactics for all.

I do recall somewhere in the book talking about the Blood War forces (maybe not named as such) waging war on the Eternal Battlefields of Acheron, which struck me as a bit odd.

 

[Nightfall]

It's better than Champions of Ruined I'll say this.

God knows I'm glad I didn't shell out any money for it.

 

[swordsmasher]

Here is my rating scale:

1-2: Unmentionable (As in there is no word in any language to describe how horrible the product is).

3-4: Crap (It mostly sucks, but you might be able to get some use out of it.

5: Okay (You'll use at least 50% of it in your campaign, even if the players never do.)


6-7: Sweet (The book delivers it's theme in clear and concise tones, and offers a wide plethora of crap you will use, plan to use, or want to use but may never because you'll be overusing everything else in the book.)

8-9: Divine (This is the book you buy instead of buying the mother of your children a happy mommy's day card, and the consequences are worth suffering because the book is so freaking cool.)

10+: Pure Dagnasty Evil! (The kind of book that is so pure in form, content, and layout, that looking at it makes you want to weep with ecstacy and bliss.)