Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Heroes of Shadow
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5533507" data-attributes="member: 78116"><p>Actually that's possibly one of the worst possible choices you could make, unless you later take the feat to negate poison immunity. Most of the creatures resistant to necrotic damage - notably undead - are immune to poison. So all you're doing is turning your non-damaging effects into something most undead will now utterly ignore (while before you're just doing less damage). That's actually a perfect example of a "trap feat" in the game, because you're actually <em>worse</em> with it against undead (who are widely poison immune, necrotic resistant). </p><p></p><p>So now you need an assassin multiclass (or be an assassin, in which case you probably weren't worried about necrotic much anyway), then venom hand master and have sunk 3 feats just to negate necrotic in an extremely roundabout manner. Additionally you're actually making life very hard for yourself because your non-damaging power properties are now ignored by undead (due to the poison keyword) - until you have the entire combination that is. The irony is substantial when you consider some of the HoS powers effects target undead, only to be negated because poison picks up all your non-damaging aspects of the power. The undead then become immune to these powers in the first place - which is pretty funny but won't please the player when the DM picks up on this. The necrotic at-will in the book, which cannot negate an undead creatures regeneration or give it vulnerable because you added the poison keyword is pretty funny.</p><p></p><p>But you can do it this way, it's just grossly ineffective and unless you plan to MC Assassin, practically undesirable. You can actually make all of your powers <em>worse</em> this way, attempting to circumvent the resistance of the same enemies that are causing you the most problems in the first place.</p><p></p><p>Edit: This requires a direct rules citation.</p><p></p><p>In fairness, this is a remarkably overlooked and overly complex rule that <em>shouldn't</em> be there. But poison is literally and do forgive me here, the <em>poisoned</em> chalice of damage types in 4E. You NEVER add it to a power unless you can get away with it because of this.</p><p>I think a move action would have been okay myself and been tactically useful. It's a bit easier to generate more move actions - or get a move before an attack (as an example, Deft Strike) than a standard. The standard action practically cripples its combat use and that the feature actually isn't worthwhile outside of combat has been discussed pretty extensively.</p><p>That is actually pretty interesting and I think would have made the penalty fit a bit better in context. I still don't really see any point for the -2 penalty, but at least it doesn't really bother the Vryloka as a race that much after a few levels. Ironically I read elsewhere someone complained that the penalty should <em>scale</em> so that it wasn't a huge disadvantage early, then irrelevant later on!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aegeri, post: 5533507, member: 78116"] Actually that's possibly one of the worst possible choices you could make, unless you later take the feat to negate poison immunity. Most of the creatures resistant to necrotic damage - notably undead - are immune to poison. So all you're doing is turning your non-damaging effects into something most undead will now utterly ignore (while before you're just doing less damage). That's actually a perfect example of a "trap feat" in the game, because you're actually [I]worse[/I] with it against undead (who are widely poison immune, necrotic resistant). So now you need an assassin multiclass (or be an assassin, in which case you probably weren't worried about necrotic much anyway), then venom hand master and have sunk 3 feats just to negate necrotic in an extremely roundabout manner. Additionally you're actually making life very hard for yourself because your non-damaging power properties are now ignored by undead (due to the poison keyword) - until you have the entire combination that is. The irony is substantial when you consider some of the HoS powers effects target undead, only to be negated because poison picks up all your non-damaging aspects of the power. The undead then become immune to these powers in the first place - which is pretty funny but won't please the player when the DM picks up on this. The necrotic at-will in the book, which cannot negate an undead creatures regeneration or give it vulnerable because you added the poison keyword is pretty funny. But you can do it this way, it's just grossly ineffective and unless you plan to MC Assassin, practically undesirable. You can actually make all of your powers [I]worse[/I] this way, attempting to circumvent the resistance of the same enemies that are causing you the most problems in the first place. Edit: This requires a direct rules citation. In fairness, this is a remarkably overlooked and overly complex rule that [i]shouldn't[/i] be there. But poison is literally and do forgive me here, the [i]poisoned[/i] chalice of damage types in 4E. You NEVER add it to a power unless you can get away with it because of this. I think a move action would have been okay myself and been tactically useful. It's a bit easier to generate more move actions - or get a move before an attack (as an example, Deft Strike) than a standard. The standard action practically cripples its combat use and that the feature actually isn't worthwhile outside of combat has been discussed pretty extensively. That is actually pretty interesting and I think would have made the penalty fit a bit better in context. I still don't really see any point for the -2 penalty, but at least it doesn't really bother the Vryloka as a race that much after a few levels. Ironically I read elsewhere someone complained that the penalty should [I]scale[/I] so that it wasn't a huge disadvantage early, then irrelevant later on! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Heroes of Shadow
Top