Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms - rogue ??

[Istar]

Anything remotely useful that a Rogue or Cleric might pick up here ?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

yes!

Underdark related feats:
- Darkvision is very convenient for a rogue to have
- blind fight doesn´t hurt either

 

[Saeviomagy]

If you have buddies that create lots of difficult terrain, there's a feat that gives you CA while your target is in it.

There's another one that gives you CA while you have concealment against your target.

Finally there's one which gives you CA against any target that has no creature other than you adjacent.

There's a feat which gives you low-light (I didn't see one for darkvision - did I miss something, or are you talking about the one that grants darkvision to 2 squares ungeheuerlich?)

Oh, and there's a feat that lets you avoid the -10 penalty for perception checks while blind AND lets you ignore total concealment in melee.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

If you have buddies that create lots of difficult terrain, there's a feat that gives you CA while your target is in it.

There's another one that gives you CA while you have concealment against your target.

Finally there's one which gives you CA against any target that has no creature other than you adjacent.

The first is situational, the second is highly dependent on equipment (Armor of Dark Deeds makes it almost guarantee permanent CA), and the third is pure gold all by itself.

I started a thread a few weeks back about whether the third one (Cunning Stalker) is melee-only or can be used at range. Opinion was all over the place, but if it CAN be used at range, it is a pure improvement (for the cost of a feat) over the Thief's Ambush Trick. If only usable in melee, it still enables one to get CA in many cases where it would not otherwise be possible, or where one COULD use Ambush Trick but would have to take an OA for moving.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The first is situational, the second is highly dependent on equipment (Armor of Dark Deeds makes it almost guarantee permanent CA), and the third is pure gold all by itself.

The first is definately situational, but there are certainly party make-ups that would get a good bonus from it.

Unless every monster you ever meet has darkvision or your party insist on using sunrods all the time the second one can be fantastic even without gear aimed at cheesing it. Hell, just pick up some smokesticks.

I started a thread a few weeks back about whether the third one (Cunning Stalker) is melee-only or can be used at range. Opinion was all over the place, but if it CAN be used at range, it is a pure improvement (for the cost of a feat) over the Thief's Ambush Trick. If only usable in melee, it still enables one to get CA in many cases where it would not otherwise be possible, or where one COULD use Ambush Trick but would have to take an OA for moving.

For what it's worth, I think it's melee AND ranged, and I don't think there's any balance issue there. For starters, ambush trick lets you have some of your allies next to the target (getting a completely isolated foe is actually not that easy). Aside from that, it's not the first time that a feat has made a power redundant (or for that matter that a power has been redundant out of the gate).

In fact, I think if it was only for melee then it would rate as a bad feat: it's highly likely to only work before the monsters get a turn, and to use it you're making yourself a prime target, which is never good for a rogue.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

For starters, ambush trick lets you have some of your allies next to the target (getting a completely isolated foe is actually not that easy).

Yes, but if you have an ally next to the target, you can get the same result (CA) from Tactical Trick, which has fewer restrictions and a better movement clause. In other words, if you have Cunning Stalker and Tactical Trick, Ambush Trick never gives you any benefit.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Yes, but if you have an ally next to the target, you can get the same result (CA) from Tactical Trick, which has fewer restrictions and a better movement clause. In other words, if you have Cunning Stalker and Tactical Trick, Ambush Trick never gives you any benefit.

And if you don't, then it does. I mean seriously, if we're going down the path of "this rogue trick is bad" then what is the point of the one that gives +Cha to damage if you don't have CA? Is it really intended to be combined with obscure dragon mag feats before it's any good?

 

[Prestidigitalis]

And if you don't, then it does. I mean seriously, if we're going down the path of "this rogue trick is bad" then what is the point of the one that gives +Cha to damage if you don't have CA? Is it really intended to be combined with obscure dragon mag feats before it's any good?

Whoa, what? I'm just saying, if you take both Cunning Stalker AND the Tactical Trick power, then you already have every possible benefit you can get from Ambush Trick. Every one. You have CA against enemies who have no creatures at all adjacent (via Cunning Stalker), and you have CA against enemies who have one of your allies adjacent (via Tactical Trick).

So I'm not saying Ambush Trick is bad -- after all, the method above does require a feat slot. And yes, the +Cha one really is bad, in isolation, and without reference to other feats or powers. That has nothing to do with my point.

 

[Istar]

If .....
Finally there's one which gives you CA against any target that has no creature other than you adjacent.

.....melee.

Thats not bad, aa there is always one of those about as our fights are very spread with the DM sending us all around the room.

CA level 6 now seems always to be on tap, so poss not worth a feat, possibly

mmmmm....

but worth thinking about