Hey Publishers, fair use?

[Treebore]

I know when we sit at games we have "fair use" of our rule books when we share them with fellow players.

As far as I can tell I also have "fair use" on line if a PDF is shared with me and I am told to delete it when the campaign is over. Has there been any legal clarification of what is and is not "fair use" over the internet?

So far I have not been accepting such PDF's, which I rarely need anyways, since I am such a gaming whore I have pretty much every book published for the games I like.

Still, there are times when it would make the gaming a little better if I knew if sharing PDF's in such a manner, and then deleting it when the campaign ends, is still considered "fair use".

So what do you publishers know or think about this kind of "use". Does it sound "fair", as long as those who didn't buy the PDF delete it when the game/campaign is over?

If you don't think it is fair, what would be considered "fair use" over the internet?

I know there are people who don't, or won't delete. So lets leave those who would do things illegally out of this.

So for someone like me, who is honest and wants to stay legal, what would be "fair use" of a PDF in a on line game?

 

[Mark]

I know when we sit at games we have "fair use" of (. . .)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

 

[Treebore]

Well, going by that, since its been a long established and accepted use of gaming material, IE the sharing of books among gaming group members, I would say sharing the PDF's would be directly equivalent as long as the PDF's are deleted when no longer needed for playing the game, by the persons who did not buy the PDF.

It would be even better if only the relevant needed parts are shared, rather than the whole thing at once.

Sound like a "fair" interpretation?

 

[Lizard]

Sorry, 'sharing' PDFs is not fair use -- it's no different than xeroxing an entire book, handing the pages to someone, and saying "Throw these away later". You don't have the right to xerox the book itself, so the use to which the pages are put is not an issue.

The term is "copyright" -- the right to make copies. Sharing a physical book -- buying it used, borrowing it from a library, loaning it to a friend -- never violates copyright because, well, the book is never copied. "Fair use" allows *limited* copying of *small* portions for purposes of criticism and commentary -- a reviewer or scholar, for example. This has limits. You can't duplicate say, Star Wars, record five minutes of 'criticism' at the beginning, and say you're under 'fair use'.

It's like saying "Well, giving someone a mix tape you recorded off the radio is fair use, 'cause, y'know, everyone does it." Everyone speeds; everyone cheats on their taxes; everyone lies about sex. This doesn't mean these things are right.

 

[Treebore]

Actually I do have the right to Xerox the book itself. As long as I bought it, and keep the copy and the original for my own personal use.

If you were right about this copies of music CD's and back up copies of game discs would not be allowed. They are. Your just not allowed to sell those copies to others, or to give them away. Loaning is an acceptable and well established practice.

 

[kcmopd1913]

Lizard is right. It's one thing to print a PDF out for yourself and use it at the game table with everyone with you keeping the copy then to pass out the PDF to everyone without the publishers consent. I believe that would be a copyright violation.

 

[Vigilance]

Actually I do have the right to Xerox the book itself. As long as I bought it, and keep the copy and the original for my own personal use.

Right, but xeroxing a book to give to someone else is not "personal use".

I think copying PDFs onto someone else's computer crosses the line, whether you ask them to delete it or not.

 

[Lizard]

Actually I do have the right to Xerox the book itself. As long as I bought it, and keep the copy and the original for my own personal use.

If you were right about this copies of music CD's and back up copies of game discs would not be allowed. They are. Your just not allowed to sell those copies to others, or to give them away. Loaning is an acceptable and well established practice.

This is true -- you can make all the copies you want for your own personal use, but that wasn't what we were discussing and so I didn't feel obliged to call it out.

 

[Treebore]

Lizard is right. It's one thing to print a PDF out for yourself and use it at the game table with everyone with you keeping the copy then to pass out the PDF to everyone without the publishers consent. I believe that would be a copyright violation.

That is what I am asking.

When your sitting around a table you can let others "use" the book, and that is fine. So there should be "fair use" of PDF's as well, since it is published work and still covered by fair use laws. So I would like to know what would be fair use with PDF's in games run on line.

Especially in 3E with the OGL making so much material "open" anyways.

Reading "fair use" laws there is a degree of sharing that is allowed.

Now obviously someone getting a PDF copy and not paying the publisher for it goes outside of fair use into illegal activity.

So to what degree can PDF's be fairly used for internet games?

I would hope at the very least info that is specific to a character can be shared. I can also agree sending a complete PDF copy to someone is highly questionable.

However I think the RPG publishing community better make it clear as to what they are willing to accept as "fair use", and when it will cross the line into an offense the publishers will press criminal charges for.


As to Lizard, I responded like I did because you said, "You don't have the right to xerox the book itself, so the use to which the pages are put is not an issue."

Other than that it seems like we completely agree.

 

[CountPopeula]

Sharing a physical book -- buying it used, borrowing it from a library, loaning it to a friend -- never violates copyright because, well, the book is never copied.

This isn't exactly true. Sharing a physical book is a right you have under the doctrine of first sale, a specific exception to copyright law in some countries. In Japan, for example, it's illegal to sell used video games, it's considered copyright infringement. Depending on the influence of major corporations over copyright law in the country you live, you may not have the right to share books physically, much less pdfs.