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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7920850" data-attributes="member: 20323">I think looking back to the original version of a D&D monster and using that original design as the only guiding light for how to make the best & truest version of that monster is misguided.As I pointed out in my OP, the 1e traits you describe are not driving factors of unique monster design, rather they were endemic to many demons:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Darkness & teleport & infravision & gating (many 1e demons can do these)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">fear (so can 1e’s balor glabrezu, nalfeshnee, and marilith)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">levitate (so can 1e’s glabrezu)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">telekinesis (so can both 1e’s glabrezu, nalfeshnee, and vrock)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">detect invisible objects (so can 1e’s balor, marilith, and vrock)</li> </ul>While it's critical to understand the essence/roots/creative origins of a monster – and sometimes that's harder than it sounds! – D&D is a progression of design and lore. Yes, there's plenty of debate about specific decisions, but the big picture is that the authors/designers add layers of lore across various supplements and editions. If there is a spirit to 5e it is inclusivity, both of the broad player base and also the broad swath of past lore.Again, I urge caution with putting "the original" on a pedestal... In fact, the original OD&D hezrou had no role. It was just a demon, like any other. Phrases like "foot soldier" or "sergeant" or "torturer" or any other kind of descriptive role are wholly absent from the original demons. Instead, there was a physical description and list of powers. That's it. No ecology. No culture. No roles to speak of.So, yes, the Abyss may want bloodshed and carnage. But that should not preclude making each demon interesting both narratively and mechanically (in a way that wasn't done in their original incarnations).[MEDIA=youtube]vkyuyACXRtc:491[/MEDIA]There's a comment that Esper makes in this video about hezrou being "demonic fart ogres", and as ridiculous as it sounds, it's not far off the mark. He does a good job of underscoring the hezrou's narrative and mechanical lameness. Certainly, a weak dretch or manes doesn't need a bunch of story, but when you're dealing with an intelligent CR 8 monster on the order of a Drow Priestess of Lolth, a Githzerai Knight, a Mind Flayer Arcanist, or a Young Green Dragon, that sort of thin design no longer works (IMO, of course).</blockquote>

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