D&D 5E Hezrou demon redesign

Quickleaf

Legend
Back in 2014 Christopher Burdett shared his design sketches for a redesign of the hezrou demon. He describes it as a "giant fat frog demon", like several Monster Manuals have done, and while his artwork is terrific, the end product looks very much like a slaad... with more spikes. This was the final concept that informed the 5e Monster Manual art.

Monster-Manual-Hezrou-Demon.jpg


5e Monster Manual said:
Hezrous serve as foot soldiers in the demonic hordes of the Abyss. Although physically powerful, they are weakminded and hezrous can easily be duped into sacrificing themselves by more powerful demons. As they press their attacks into the heart of an enemy's forces, their foul stench can sicken even the toughest foes.

I've been working on an adventure involving demons, and realized that 5e’s take on the hezrou falls really flat. It's essentially a bigger version of a stinky dretch. A big sack of HP that’s described as a “foot soldier” with negligible lore. Even the brutish barlgura – which fills a very similar “foot soldier” role – is more mechanically interesting. So I'm going to redesign this demon, keeping the essence of the monster but making it more interesting artistically, lore-wise, and mechanically.

Do you have any suggestions for the hezrou's artistic representation, lore, or mechanics? Things that you've done with it in your own games?

In the spoiler below, I go through the hezrou demon in each edition of D&D from 1e to 5e, so you can follow my design thinking.

Type_II_Demon.JPG

uNJbhel.png


1e: Monster Manual

Art:
The “Type II” demon looks like a twisted chubby big-mouthed lizardman that’s dancing.

Lore:
  • They’re depicted as having low Intelligence, much like the vrock.
  • There really is no lore to speak of here.
Mechanics:
  • They can be struck by normal weapons. Besides that, there’s not much here.
  • They can cast several spells at-will, but none of these are unique. Darkness (most 1e demons can do this), detect invisible objects (e.g. so can 1e’s balor, marilith, and vrock), fear (so can 1e’s balor glabrezu, nalfeshnee, and marilith), levitate (so can 1e’s glabrezu), and telekinesis (so can both 1e’s glabrezu, nalfeshnee, and vrock).

latest

2e: Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix

Art:
The Diterlizzi art doubles down on the frog-ish look and gives it an even larger mouth.

Lore:
  • They’re depicted as having average to high Intelligence (8 - 14). By comparison, the barlgura is low to average Intelligence (5 - 10), and the vrock is high (12 - 14).
  • They oversee formation of Abyssal armies at the behest of their masters – nalfeshneee, true tanar’ri, and demon lords. They’re depicted like sergeants who keep the rowdy lesser demons in line.
  • There’s a fascinating bit about “Dark Walks.” Certain times in a century, a hezrou can plane shift at will, and then it goes forth to make simple pacts with mortals. They enter into service to a mortal in dire need (e.g. destroying an enemy’s castle or retrieving a lost artifact), and in exchange the mortal (or a betrayed family member, friend, or lover) is taken to the Abyss to serve forever as a mane.
Mechanics:
  • They grab anyone they hit with both attacks – maybe to keep deserters from fleeing or to capture new recruits?
  • They exude a a foul liquid from their skin that induces gagging and vomiting in anyone within 10 feet.
  • They can cast a host of unique spells. Some play with the laws of physics – animate object, blink, duo-dimenion, and protection from normal missiles. Others are more Old Testament, I guess you could say – produce flame, summon insects, unholy word, and wall of fire.

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3.5e: Monster Manual

Art:
In this edition, the hezrou looks more like a hulking brute with glowering eyes underneath spiky brows, growths and spikes growing over its body. Its mouth remains wide.

Lore:
  • They depicted as Intelligence 14, but their cunning is limited to battlefield strategies. By comparison, the bar-lgura in the Book of Vile Darkness are Intelligence 13, whereas the vrock are Intelligence 14.
  • They’re “demonic sergeants” literally, overseeing formation of armies and commanding units in battle.

Mechanics:
  • They have a host of skills as was typical of the edition, with stand-outs being climb, concentration, intimidate, listen, and spot.
  • They have stench, very similar to their AD&D version.
  • They grab anyone they hit with both attacks, like their AD&D version.
  • They can, like their AD&D version, cast several unique spells: chaos hammer & unholy blight (which the 3.5e glabrezu also has), blasphemy (which 3.5e balor also has), and 3.5e introduces gaseous form 3/day. Most of these spells lay down damage and/or disable, more like the “Old Testament” spells of the 2e version. However, gaseous form is both interesting and perplexing…why would a “demonic sergeant” need to seep through walls as a gas?

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4e: Monster Manual

Art:
Pretty much identical to 3.5e.

Lore:
  • They depicted as Intelligence 8, with an emphasis on being obedient. By comparison the barlgura are Intelligence 6, and vrock are Intelligence 12.
  • They live to serve stronger demons & summoners who reward/encourage their destructive behavior.
  • They are motivated by food.
Mechanics:
  • They have a stench aura that imposes a penalty to hit and weakens. So a bit tuned down from past editions.
  • They can ignore difficult terrain, “seeming to phase through it.” This evokes the 3.5e gaseous form spell.
  • Like most of 4e’s monsters they have no spellcasting.

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5e: Monster Manual

Art:
Looks alot like a spikier take on a bulky slaad. Like the slaad, it has a wide mouth.

Lore:
  • They are depicted as Intelligence 5, lower than the bar-lgura (7) and lowest it’s ever been depicted in any edition of D&D. They’re “weakminded” and “easily duped into sacrificing themselves by more powerful demons.”
  • They are “foot soldiers” (downgraded from being sergeants in 3e and 2e)

Mechanics:
  • They have the stench aura which is comparable with the 4e version. And that’s it.

I am still playing with some sketches, but here's what I've come up with regarding its lore and mechanics. Trying to keep my changes as effective and minimally invasive to the existing stat block as possible.

Lore:
  • They’re no strategic geniuses, but they have low cunning on par with a kobold (sufficient to lure enemies into a trap). Intelligence 5 seems too low. 8 is more in line with how I see them, comparable to a vrock.
  • This helps reflect their “demonic sergeant” role. While they can still be powerful brutes, I want to play up this part of their identity which seems to have fallen by the wayside. 5e doesn’t describe any demon as being the “squad leader”, just mariliths commanding demonic hordes, so restoring this aspect of the hezrou fills a gap. Hezrou lead from the front.
  • The 2e bit about “Dark Walks” is great and makes hezrous a bit like evil recruiters, not in the tricky sense of a succubus, but in a very transparent bargain: “yes, I can do this for you, but after a ten-year, you will serve forever in the army of the Abyss.”
Mechanics:
  • They have a ton of HP - 136. This is the same as a CR 8 young green dragon or tyrannosaurus rex! And the hezrou has damage resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing weapons to boot, which according to the DMG give it 204 effective HP! To be fair the CR 8 frost giants have 138 HP and CR 8 hydra have 178 HP, so there is precedent, but mostly these are Huge creature (excepting the young green dragon – but that’s a dragon). A good comparison might be the large CR 8 green slaad with 127 HP and no B/P/S resistances (but does have regeneration giving it 157 effective HP). Right now, their hit points sit squarely between a CR 6 vrock (104) than a CR 9 glabrezu (157!), which is relationally the same as the AD&D versions with 8 HD vrocks, 9 HD hezrou, and 10 HD glabrezu. I may drop this down to 116-130 to lower the hezrous defensive CR slightly in order to bump its offensive CR slightly while keeping its total CR 8.
  • Probably best not to try to incorporate the Improved Grab stuff, since the 5e glabrezu already grapples with its pincer. It doesn’t seem essential to the hezrou’s core concept.
  • I think the hezrou needs another trait/action, and though I was originally thinking Innate Spellcasting, as you’ll see in my examinatino of each spell hezrou have had in older editions, probably spellcasting isn’t the right fit, but the spells can be used to inform a new special ability.

Mechanics: Innate Spellcasting
If barlgura can have Innate Spellcasting, so can the hezrou…or if not spellcasting, then special/magical abilities. I’m going through each spell it got in older editions to evaluate the spell against the “demonic sergeant” theme.
  • The physics-altering spells of AD&D like animate object, blink, and duo-dimenion, don’t seem to fit – these seem better suited to a banderhobb or some other boogeyman out of a fairy tale who jump scares you. Blink and duo-dimension have an element of evasion to them, however, so keeping that in the back of my mind.
  • However, protection from normal missiles would make sense if if protected more than one creatures. That would make it easier for a squad of demons to close to melee. There’s no 5e version of this spell, but a way to represent it might be attaching heavy obscurement to the hezrou’s Stench cloud in some way. I think this will be a thread I lean into.
  • The “Old Testament” spells from AD&D are produce flame, summon insects, unholy word, and wall of fire. Right away, I’m nixing produce flame because the hezrou really isn’t a ranged combatant. Also, hezrou can summon dretches already so no need for summon insects (plus it’s kind of off theme). While wall of fire would be a cool strategic spell on a battlefield, it never became something hezrou were known for, could significantly boost their CR with ongoing damage, and their Stench already exerts a bit of battlefield control. Unholy word becomes blasphemy in 3e, so I’ll address that next.
  • The “Old Testament” spells from 3e are blasphemy, chaos hammer, and unholy blight. Well, unholy word/blasphemy kind of fits a demonic imagining of a drill sergeant, though there’s no exact 5e equivalent and the matter of targeting is complicated (e.g. if it affected non-evil creatures, well, normally the hezrou is engaged in the Blood War which is against lawful evil devils, so…). It was also a spell the 3.5e balor had, but the 5e balor gets no such spell. So putting it in my back pocket for now.
  • Chaos hammer and unholy blight were shared with the glabrezu in 3.5e, but unleashing area effect destruction was never the glabrezu’s thing – it was more about corrupting spellcasters, and it’s 5e spells like confusion, dispel magic, and power word stun reflect that. The hezrou, on the other hand, IS about battlefield magic. Chaos hammer does area damage and slows; while there is no exact 5e equivalent, the idea that a hezrou makes it easier for its troops to bypass difficult terrain goes hand-in-hand with the idea of making it harder for enemies to cross difficult terrain (which is like a lesser slow effect). I think that’s something I can expand on. Unholy blight targets non-evil creatures and damages + sickens (the latter which the hezrou already does with Stench), so maybe not the best fit for a 1:1 conversion; however, the spell description is “a cold, cloying miasma of greasy darkness.” I’m going to lean on that.
  • Gaseous form has me thinking. Even though it doesn’t fit the hezrou’s role, what if the hezrou has a trait/action which protects its troops (protection from normal missiles) and “slipstreams” them across difficult terrain surrounded by “a cold, cloying miasma of greasy darkness”? And what if this heavy obscurement rolling from its Stench cloud makes movement harder for hostile forces? THAT sounds perfect for the hezrou. It merges several older edition ideas and gives mechanical support to hezrou being squad leaders.
Proposed Mechanical Changes (rough draft):
  • Increase Intelligence to 8.
  • Decrease Hit Points to 126 (12d10+60).
  • Caustic Miasma (recharges after a short or long rest). Magical dark greasy whirling vapors fill a 20-foot radius sphere around the hezrou and move with it. Ranged attacks made from within this miasma, as well as ranged attacks made against creatures within this miasma, have disadvantage. Demons in the miasma ignore difficult terrain. Creatures hostile to the hezrou must spend an additional 5 feet of movement for every space within the miasma they move through, and take 1d6 acid damage for every 5 feet they move through the miasma toward the hezrou. The miasma lasts as long as the hezrou maintains concentration or until strong winds displace it.
Here is my design thinking for Caustic Miasma...

First, it's an action to activate. That means the hezrou forgoes its first round of claw/claw/bite (37 average damage). A character moving through the Caustic Miasma takes 14 (4d6) acid damage. It seems rare to find a party that doesn't have two characters who engage in melee on the regular, so if a party braves the miasma that is 28 acid damage. In this case, the hezrou may have sacrificed a little bit of damage (but maybe not - see below). However, if three characters brave the Caustic Miasma that jumps up to 42 acid damage, which eclipses the hezrou's single-round damage. Which is why I dropped its HP just to be safe.

There are a couple ways to deal with Caustic Miasma – dispel magic works because it's a magical effect, gust of wind could blow it away, or dealing a lot of damage to the hezrou (either via a Sharpshooter, adding advantage to a ranged attack to negate disadvantage, or a spell requiring a save). However, the damage route is hard because the hezrou has +8 CON, so even 36 damage would be a DC 18 Con save, giving the hezrou a 50/50 chance. Or you could lure the hezrou into overextending itself / its forces, withdraw briefly, and then mount a followup attack after it drops the concentration thinking the battle was over.

The size (20-ft radius) is intended to prevent melee characters from being able to move and attack in the same round, unless they have freedom of movement or haste, are a rogue using Cunning Action, a fighter using Action Surge, a 5th level barbarian, a monk, are a race with 40 speed or speed features (e.g. tabaxi). If a character moves adjacent to the hezrou but wasn't able to attack in the same turn, the hezrou will have its dretches or whatever minions push past those characters, deliberately provoking opportunity attacks. The hezrou does this because it wants to claw/claw/bite, then move back 20 feet without provoking. Now, the characters are faced with the prospect of having to reenter the Caustic Miasma for more damage.
 
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Celebrim

Legend
I've never really liked the artistic or mechanical or even lore direction that demons took in D&D, so my personal preference would be to scrap the whole concept.

The first edition monster manual introduced us to 'Type 1' through 'Type VIII' demons. There are several aspects of this presentation where I think the ultimate intention was lost, and where I also think Gygax thought better of his original design. The first thing that I think was lost, was Gygax never intended the demons to be hierarchical, with Type 1 being the weakest and ascending to stronger and stronger types. A careful reading of the 1e AD&D stats does not show a linear progression in power from Type 1 to Type 8. There is an overall progression, but some lower numbered types have more HD or other superior abilities to higher numbered types. The further we've gotten from the original MM, the more hierarchy has been introduced. And the second thing that I think was lost was that I don't think Gygax really intended any particular type to be numerous and pervasive. Each type was I think intended to represent a relatively small number of individuals, many of which would be named. I think he intended there to be an infinite number of types, which by now might be publishing type 60's or type 90's with the clear indication that there were many more types not yet described.

By the time the DMG was written, I think Gygax had hit upon a better scheme than publishing stat blocks for demons, and that appeared along with several other ideas that he'd hit upon between writing the MM and the DMG, in the Appendixes. In the Appendix, he presents a template for generating a very large number of random fiendish beasties, and I think that and not what we ended up with, is what should have been the model for future demons. Further, as these ideas got integrated into the 'Great Wheel' cosmology, I think they should have moved a bit from their occult origins into something that actually made more sense in the 'Great Wheel' cosmology.

As for the Hezrou, I'd want to tie them to some theme I thought particularly chaotic, evil, and gruesome. The primary impulse of CE is "Everything that is should be mine." and in its purest fashion "Everything that is should be me." The traditional Hezrou is little more than a bulked up Troglodyte meant to be a pure melee opponent once Ogres and the like are no longer really viable threats. Thematically, it's just a medieval toad scaled up to the demonic, with warty poisonous skin and a bite. This is the black magic wizard's toad familiar turned into a combat brute. The focus on combat brute is I think needless and distracting. I think the idea of demons leading or commanding other demons is just missing the point entirely.

Personally, I think the 'Summon Insect' is very on point, as the creature is a creature of plague and calamity and so it should be associated with plagues and calamities, of devouring up prosperity, and of change and transformation that is always for the worst. Similarly, producing flame is again associated with devouring up prosperity, as uncontrolled fire is the great devourer of things, transforming what is vibrant and valuable into things that are worthless and sterile.

I don't give a flying flip about its combat role being coherent. I want the thing to be reeking evil.
 

MonkeezOnFire

Adventurer
I really like the design of Caustic Miasma. I've used demons a lot in my last campaign and a tool to help them get into melee would be great for them.

Just a minor nitpick is that I'm not a big fan of "Creatures hostile to the hezrou" as that can be vague and leave open questions about neutral parties or parties that aren't yet openly hostile. You could change it to affect non-demons. Or if you want to facilitate inter demon conflict you could steal how Spirit Guardians works with "When the hezrou activates this ability it can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it. "
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Celebrim said:
This is the black magic wizard's toad familiar turned into a combat brute.
That's really brilliant. It's an origin story that I've never seen done in D&D!

Celebrim said:
And the second thing that I think was lost was that I don't think Gygax really intended any particular type to be numerous and pervasive. Each type was I think intended to represent a relatively small number of individuals, many of which would be named.
Yes, I know what you mean.

I didn't want to detract from the general question in my opening post, but the context is that I have a group of hezrous called the Heralds of the Dark Prince who've been uplifted from the savageries of the Blood War by Graz'zt and given roles as his pseudo-knight bannerets. There's a bit of story...

Most hezrou face a miserable lot – centuries of magical binding by mortal mages dulling their wits and unrecognized service in the Blood War throwing them at the enemy in sacrifical waves. However, Graz’zt uplifted 33 of these hezrous with insidious words and the Demonomicon of Iggwilv, restoring their minds from animalistic savagery along with magical powers thought lost in the annals of the Blood War. Each of his heralds is given a black banner emblazoned with a silver six-fingered hand. They serve as his bannerets in battle and announce his presence when the Dark Prince receives visitors. While other hezrou deride the heralds of Graz’zt as weaklings, they take pride in their service to a demon lord who showed them more was possible than mindless slaughter.

In addition to the ideas I mentioned above (increased INT, reduced HP, Caustic Miasma), I'm also giving them some form of Innate Spellcasting, probably fear & hold person 1/day (these are suggested for the cult of Graz'zt in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes) and divine word (though immediately after speaking it the herald is destroyed).

They'll have a particular look too, probably a more mauve skin tone and some knight regalia (e.g. sallet helm and tabard) for starters. Still figuring that out.
 

toucanbuzz

No rule is inviolate
On a campaign by campaign basis, I've been going back to old-school design for demons. Being big bag of hit points with a melee attack is...dull and repetitive. Appreciate the insight to their ecology. It's a lost art.
 

Celebrim

Legend
I didn't want to detract from the general question in my opening post...

I didn't really want to side track your quest too much either, and I confess freely that there was no small part of ranting/venting about the Outer Planes lore that have built up over time. In particular, much as I love the DiTerlizzi art, and as much as I enjoyed Planescape Torment, I despise the Planescape setting. As I said, my preference would be to abandon the whole thing, but I'm not actually asking you to abandon the whole thing because that would be silly.

, but the context is that I have a group of hezrous called the Heralds of the Dark Prince who've been uplifted from the savageries of the Blood War by Graz'zt and given roles as his pseudo-knight bannerets.

All quite proper using existing lore. None of which I'd ever use in my own campaign, simply because feudal hierarchies and everything in the Outer Planes being more like aliens from Star Trek or the Star Wars cantina (everything is human, they just have different bumps on their forehead) than actually Alien is not the way I'd want to take things.

But hopefully in my ranting about how present demons in D&D aren't particularly demonic and are just out sized Ogres you might get some inspiration.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Since you brought up "Old Testament"-style spells... it occurs to me that hezrous, as frog-demons native to the River Styx, have some echoes of the Plagues of Egypt. What about developing them as plague-bringers, following that theme?

Appropriate spells could include insect plague (gnats, flies, locusts), darkness (darkness), contagion (livestock, boils), ice storm (hail), and circle of death (death of the firstborn). The hezrou itself embodies the plague of frogs, and the Styx is the river of blood.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
But hopefully in my ranting about how present demons in D&D aren't particularly demonic and are just out sized Ogres you might get some inspiration.
Yes! Always appreciate your insights. I completely understand what you mean about D&D's approach to demons. I generally lean much more toward things like the Gebbeth from Earthsea. Actually, one of my favorite takes on demons comes from Beyond the Wall RPG, and like you were saying, it's a series of choices and tables (e.g. sphere of influence, weakness) where you create each demon uniquely. Though it uses "demon" in the way 5e uses "fiend." I suppose one way to think of D&D's demon lore is "Here's an example of a bunch of demons that have been pre-rolled for you."

Dausuul said:
Since you brought up "Old Testament"-style spells... it occurs to me that hezrous, as frog-demons native to the River Styx, have some echoes of the Plagues of Egypt. What about developing them as plague-bringers, following that theme?

Appropriate spells could include insect plague (gnats, flies, locusts), darkness (darkness), contagion (livestock, boils), ice storm (hail), and circle of death (death of the firstborn). The hezrou itself embodies the plague of frogs, and the Styx is the river of blood.

Are hezrou native to the River Styx? I've never read that in their lore. Sounds like you might be confusing with hydroloths, which are yugoloths that inhabit the Styx and also have frog faces. Slaad, hezrou, hydroloths, it's a bit confusing when they're so similar looking.

But I really like that take on them. I know that Pathfinder made the yugoloths more like plague-bringers / four horsemen, but AFAIK there is no D&D demon dedicated to that theme, right?
 

dave2008

Legend
I haven't read your whole post yet, I need more time, but my first thought was to play up the frog part of frog demon. Frogs are ambush predators who swallow prey whole. That could be interesting.

FYI: here is the Hezrou I made for my "hardcore monster manual," please note it uses a different system to calculate CR. I don't know if it is relevant to what your trying to do, but it does have some more unique abilities compared to the MM version.
AD&D_Hezrou-Brute.jpg
 
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