Hide in Plain Sight: Assassins, and Shadows

[Brace Cormaeril]

I know that Hide in Plain Sight is a point of contention in the 3.x community, and I'm looking forward to the afterlife, where the truth of it's mechanics are allegedly revealed...but in the mean time....
Assassins, once they achieve 8th level, can Hide in Plain Sight as long as they are within 10ft of a shadow.
Are there any rules on shadows which relate to this? Is there any way to spoil the assassins use of HiPS by eliminating shadows? Is an area of "shadowy illumination" required to use this ability?
I'm sure that there have been many threads on this issue, I just haven't been able to find them. Thanks is advance for your thoughts.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

You don't need shadowy illumination. Anywhere with light and objects or creatures casting a shadow from it should work. By RAW, you probably could not use the ability in total darkness. Not sure if that should be considered fitting (shadows can't exist without light) or not.

Far as spoiling it...I don't know, that's tough. Perhaps you could ask your DM if Daylight or a custom higher level light spell could irradiate a room so brightly that there is no shadow. An antimagic field will stop it, because it's Su (a Ranger's version is Ex and not magical at all, to contrast).

 

[frankthedm]

• use the Hide skill even while being observed.
• within 10 feet of some sort of shadow
• hide himself from view in the open
• without having anything to actually hide behind.
• cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.

So it does look like the assassin stays in place, rather than plunge in to the shadow. So it does not work similar to the "momentary distraction" option in hide.

If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a -10 penalty because you have to move fast.

And since the rules call out the major exception to the ability being the users OWN shadow, it certainly seems to require just shadows, not the game term "shadowy illumination".

 

[Thanee]

The ability is supernatural in nature, so it is a magical effect (i.e. doesn't work while inside an Antimagic Field).

You magically draw upon the nearby shadows to conceal yourself, so you basically vanish from sight, shrouding yourself in darkness.

I would require a square of shadowy illumination or darkness within 10 feet. Otherwise it is no limit at all. Shadows are everywhere (unless you do not count total darkness, of course ).

While it isn't explicitly spelt out anywhere, I would definitely allow True Seeing to see an Assassin hidden like that, since there is really nothing to conceal him (i.e. it's not a mundane use of Hide, which True Seeing explicitly doesn't work against). Darkvision, however, is a bit too simple to allow that, so I would not allow it to trump HiPS (it doesn't work against magical darkness effects). More sophisticated versions of Darkvision, that work against magical darkness, might be different. Of course, Blindsense and Blindsight (and similar abilities) also work.

That's my take on how it should work.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jhaelen]

The ability is supernatural in nature, so it is a magical effect (i.e. doesn't work while inside an Antimagic Field).

Oh dear! I had totally forgotten about that!

Yet another detail I missed during my recent encounters with beholders...

 

[billd91]

While it isn't explicitly spelt out anywhere, I would definitely allow True Seeing to see an Assassin hidden like that, since there is really nothing to conceal him (i.e. it's not a mundane use of Hide, which True Seeing explicitly doesn't work against). Darkvision, however, is a bit too simple to allow that, so I would not allow it to trump HiPS (it doesn't work against magical darkness effects). More sophisticated versions of Darkvision, that work against magical darkness, might be different. Of course, Blindsense and Blindsight (and similar abilities) also work.

That's my take on how it should work.

My take is a little different. I don't allow anyone to hide using the concealment of shadows, HiPS or not, against someone with darkvision because there is now shadow under that form of vision. I don't view HiPS as a magical darkness effect.
I agree that true seeing would defeat it because that allows you to see through normal darkness, which is what the hiding assassin would be relying on.

 

[Coolplayer]

The ability is supernatural in nature, so it is a magical effect (i.e. doesn't work while inside an Antimagic Field).

You magically draw upon the nearby shadows to conceal yourself, so you basically vanish from sight, shrouding yourself in darkness.

I would require a square of shadowy illumination or darkness within 10 feet. Otherwise it is no limit at all. Shadows are everywhere (unless you do not count total darkness, of course ).

While it isn't explicitly spelt out anywhere, I would definitely allow True Seeing to see an Assassin hidden like that, since there is really nothing to conceal him (i.e. it's not a mundane use of Hide, which True Seeing explicitly doesn't work against). Darkvision, however, is a bit too simple to allow that, so I would not allow it to trump HiPS (it doesn't work against magical darkness effects). More sophisticated versions of Darkvision, that work against magical darkness, might be different. Of course, Blindsense and Blindsight (and similar abilities) also work.

That's my take on how it should work.

Bye
Thanee

Works the same way when I dm...and the shadow must be at least as big to occupy the character trying to use hide in plain sight. I.E. you can't hide in the shadow of a dog for example...

 

[Dandu]

Eh. Here's another way of looking at it.

HiPS requires much more of an investment than invisibility, so it should be stronger. This seems to make it... not so.

Well, something to consider, at least.