hiding behind allies

[komi]

Can you hide behind your allies in combat?

 

[Harr]

No, as far as I've been able to tell, allies count as cover for the purposes resolving ranged attacks only.

 

[komi]

On page 280, "Determining Cover":
"... If one or two of those lines are blocked by an obstacle or an enemy, the target has cover."

This is not just in the context of ranged attacks. I still don't see what doesn't allow it.

 

[Surgoshan]

The primary definition of cover is "The target is around a corner or protected by terrain". One of your allies is not terrain, a wall, nor a corner for you to be around. The bit where allies provide cover only comes up under Creatures and Cover. "When you make a ranged attack against an enemy and other enemies are in the way, your target has cover". Bolding mine. Your allies only count as cover for a ranged attack.

So, no, your allies do not provide sufficient cover for you to hide from an enemy.

 

[komi]

Well, the part under "Creatures and Cover" is not the only place it is mentioned. It's also under "Determining Cover". That was my quote. And it quite explicitly states that enemies create cover for your attacks.

But I will back off my earlier claim. It's quite clear that my quote must be in reference to ranged attacks, otherwise it would also have to apply to melee attacks. I'm quite certain it does not.

So now I'm mentally satisfied that allies don't provide cover for the purpose of hiding. Thanks!

 

[silentounce]

The primary definition of cover is "The target is around a corner or protected by terrain". One of your allies is not terrain, a wall, nor a corner for you to be around. The bit where allies provide cover only comes up under Creatures and Cover. "When you make a ranged attack against an enemy and other enemies are in the way, your target has cover". Bolding mine. Your allies only count as cover for a ranged attack.

So, no, your allies do not provide sufficient cover for you to hide from an enemy.

What if your ally is an earth elemental, or a gelatinous cube, huh, what then Mr. Smarty Pants?

 

[Milo Taproot]

"When you make a ranged attack against an enemy and other enemies are in the way, your target has cover". Bolding mine. Your allies only count as cover for a ranged attack.

I read the definition as allies to not provide cover to an enemy target, but do provide cover for you against an enemy target.

So if the "you" in in your statement is not a PC but an NPC baddie, then the a PCs allies would be the "other enemies". That sounds as though allies of a PC target that are in the way of a ranged attack being made by an NPC baddie would provide that PC target to have cover.


Example: R=ranger PC, C=Cleric PC, K kobold enemy, L=lizardman archer
R::C:::::K:::L

If R attacks K, K does not get cover from C since C is an ally of R
If R attack L, L does not get cover from C , but does get cover from K since K is an enemy of R's

And the reverse would be true:
If L attacks C, C does not get cover from K Since K is an ally of L
If L attack R, R does not get cover from K , but does get cover from C since C is an enemy of L's.

 

[komi]

Milo,

I think you've got the right idea, and thank you for the illustration. Our debate was particularly over whether the cover granted in your scenarios would allow you to attempt a stealth check to hide. E.g. could R hide from K and L?

In the end I had to agree with Harr and Surgoshan that it would not be sufficient to try to hide.