High LA abilities

[Roman]

What single ability would be worth +3 or +4 LA? How much of a bonus to a single ability score would you need to give to grant +3 or +4 LA to a race?

 

[Dinkeldog]

Pikachu, I choose you!

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

What single ability would be worth +3 or +4 LA? How much of a bonus to a single ability score would you need to give to grant +3 or +4 LA to a race?

Well, half-dragon is a +3 LA. Interestingly enough, the appendix for Savage Species (p. 213) suggests that without the breath weapon and immunity you get from the type, it's only +2*. Since half-dragons also get natural weapons and armor and a change of type, it's arguable that the attribute bonuses alone are worth +1.

Looking at Chapter 2 of Savage Species, you'll see that the worth of ability scores depends mostly on how balanced they are and what they're in. A creature with a +20 Str will probably have a +2 or maybe even a +3 LA for that, but one with a +20 Cha would probably have a +1 or +2 at the outside.

I suspect that there'll be a point of diminishing returns; yes, an uber-Strength or other stat is nice, but it's not going to be worth as much as, say, having four more levels on you.

However, note that the elder stone giant's bonus attribute array of +16 Str, +4 Dex, +8 Con, and +4 Cha is worth a +2. Of course, it's also attached to a Large creature; I suspect that the same array in a Medium creature might be a +3 (since the Large creature really should be fairly strong and tough).

Basically, it's the DM's call. I'd suggest perusing Savage Species, especially Chapter 2, before you come up with anything.

Brad

* - The DM for our epic game ruled that, and so I gleefully took advantage of that. But that was meant to be a cheese-fest, anyway.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

but one with a +20 Cha would probably have a +1 or +2 at the outside.

I'm not so sure about this. My paladin would take a +1 LA for +20 charisma in a heartbeat. And there are sorcerers out there drowning in their own drool at the very thought of it.

 

[noeuphoria]

Yes, Bob the beholder and Jake to Bodak would like +20 CHA also. "What's that shaggy, +10 to the DC's of their spell-like abilities, ruh-roh!!"

+20 to any stat is exteremely powerful (Unless it's like +20 to the int of an ettin). I think the elder stone giant's array is low because a) He's big, which makes str and con adjustments less extreme, and then the other adjustments are relatively light.

 

[Shadowdweller]

However, note that the elder stone giant's bonus attribute array of +16 Str, +4 Dex, +8 Con, and +4 Cha is worth a +2. Of course, it's also attached to a Large creature; I suspect that the same array in a Medium creature might be a +3 (since the Large creature really should be fairly strong and tough).

I take it that +2 is from 3.0? The 3.5 MM lists a NORMAL stone giant (with a +2 Wis rather than a +4 Cha) as being a +4 LA.

In any event, I don't have access to savage species so I can't comment on what it says or whether it's still applicable to 3.5, but generally MM 3.5 races with ability boosts even close to that high have a number of mandatory racial hit dice...which can be a significant mitigating factor because it greatly decreases class progression on top of those extreme attribute boni.

 

[Roman]

Hmm, great points so far - it does also depend on racial hit dice... diminishing returns and all... Anybody know how to deal with it in a formulaic manner? Perhaps have a 'base LA' and than divide it by a square root of racial hit dice? (just an idea)

 

[Thanee]

Why don't you simply ask what you want, instead of those highly hypothetic questions, which only confuse matters.

What exactly are you looking for?

A formula to derive LA? A toolkit for custom-made races?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Roman]

Why don't you simply ask what you want, instead of those highly hypothetic questions, which only confuse matters.

I ask hypothetical questions, because oftentimes I am not in any specific need and merely looking for a general answer or perhaps a specific answer which I can than try to generalise.

A formula to derive LA?

Sure, although that was not the thrust of my question it would certainly do the trick! I do not think SS is particularly good in this regard though...

 

[Thanee]

I see, so it's just some interest and no particular problem or anything, which needs a solution.

Bye
Thanee