High level starting age

[Herzog]

Are there any rules or guidelines for the starting age of high level characters?

Bit of background: I want to start playing a Dragonwrought Kobold. Because they profit from high age for mental stats while ignoring physical penalties, I would like to start my character at a higher than minimal age.
To avoid 'cheese', I'd rather use some kind of random starting age, taking into account my current level, then picking it myself (which would mean taking old er even venerable because that would give the largest bonusses without having to take penalties.....)

The PHB (and RotD) gives an indication based on class what the starting age could/should be of a first level character, but I was unable to find any guideline to determine starting age when beginning with a, say, 7th level wizard.

Any pointers?

 

[Shin Okada]

AFAIK, player can choose one's PCs age regardless of starting level. Basically, age is just a flavor. And playing an old aged character is usually OK as old age lowers physical stats while raising mental stats. Actually, one of my friend has played a level 1 human wizard of venerable age.

But yeah, allowing to play some type of characters may bring up game-balance issue. Dragonwrought Kobold is one example. Another one is higher level Monk of venerable age who claims to have reached L17 while he was still young.

Designers of the core rules seem not have been expecting this problem and I don't know any iron rule to prevent this kind of abuse.

I guess it is something should be discussed within each play group.

Personally, I will vote for not allowing such PC in our play group if someone tried to do that.

 

[Abciximab]

Yeah, there are no set rules that I've seen, it's entirely up to your DM. I expect it'll depend on your DM's game world and whether or not he feels you're gaining some advantage or bonus that the other players will not have.

In our Shackled City campaign it looks like the entire campaign will only run for just over a year in game time, so they'll be 20th level at the end and only a year or two older. High level doesn't necessarily mean you're a lot older, though some DM's may rule otherwise (A campaign may last many years game time with slow level advancement), it depends on the DM's style and preferences.

 

[udalrich]

If the feat actually says you ignore aging penalties, I'd be shocked if the designer of the feat to expect almost everyone who takes it to be venerable. So it should be balanced under those circumstances.

The only online source I could find for the feat (Product Spotlight: Races of the Dragon) though, makes me wonder if the designer thought about balance at all. Immunity to spells targeting humanoids, darkvision, low-light vision, immunity to sleep and paralysis effects and +2 to a skill? That seems a lot for a feat. It seems overpowered to me, even without aging bonuses to mental stats.

The link listed doesn't say anything about ignoring aging penalties, and I couldn't find anything about that under the dragon type in the SRD. Is the text at the link incomplete, or is that coming from someplace I didn't check?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The immunities are more because it makes you into a dragon than being immunities. You also "benefit" from immunity to enlarge/reduce person.

It might still be overpowered, but it's a feat for Kobold sorcerers, basically. And kobolds kinda...suck. Scratch that. Kobolds really suck. That said, I was never in favor of letting PCs game the aging rules to get better mental stats for casters even IF they're paying the physical penalties. It really comes down to DM preference, though. Because it's up to him what age you can start at. Certainly, a "late bloomer" kobold that only gained his first PC level at old age and got the Dragonwrought feat is more reasonable to me than the kid monk who achieved greatness before he hit puberty and then...vacationed for 70 years? Not that the latter's impossible. Just that the former is FAR more plausible.

 

[Herzog]

For reference:
1. The Dragonwrought feat can only be taken by Kobolds.
2. It can only be taken at first level
3. The 'ignore aging penalties' is mentioned under the Kobold Aging Effects Table in Races of the Dragon.
(p. 39: Ability penalties due to age do not apply to dragonwrought kobolds. See the Dragonwrought feat, page 100.)

Also, Kobolds already have darkvision. They become immune to effects targeting Humanoids, but become vulnerable to effects targeting Dragons.

Since they already had the dragonblood subtype, the advantages they gain in regards to access to feats are negligable.
Most dragon only feats gain power relative to racial HD, of which the kobold has none.

And don't forget: Kobolds start out with a -4 to STR and -2 to CON, with only a +2 to DEX to balance that out.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, I vaguely brought up most of those points, but since you were so kind to explicitly state exactly the situation...wow, I had forgotten how bad kobolds are gimped.

I'm normally hesitant to let people min-max the aging rules, but in the Kobold's case...I don't see how it could make him terribly broken. If anything will make him broken, it'll be being a caster.

You could always compromise and let him be middle-aged or old instead of venerable, so he gets some benefits but not the most possible. What is the lifespan of a kobold anyway? Especially if it's not that lengthy, being old aged could even make sense.

 

[Herzog]

I'm planning for Wizard/Sorcerer/Ultimate Magus.... so yeah, maybe a bit broken..... (although I could add in a Wis based casting class as well. mmmmm.)

Kobold starting age is 6+(random dice), they reach Middle Age at 60, Old age at 90, and Venerable at 120.

After that, they live on for Cha years, times 5 for chromatic dragon ancestry, or times 10 for metallic dragon ancestry.

So, longer than Humans. About the same as Half-Elves.

Going a bit into house-rule territory:
How about I re-roll the starting age random dice for each level? does that sound reasonable?
For reference:
-for a Kobold Wiz5/Sor1 that would mean 5x 2d4 + 1x 1d3
-for an Elf Wiz5/Sor1 that would mean 5x 10d6 + 1x 4d6

 

[irdeggman]

Bit of background: I want to start playing a Dragonwrought Kobold. Because they profit from high age for mental stats while ignoring physical penalties, I would like to start my character at a higher than minimal age.

The dragonwrought feat does not say you get to ignore aging penalties - it says your type changes to dragon and then you get to follow the dragon heritige type of benefits.

The feat must also be taken at 1st level.

 

[Herzog]

@irdeggman: no offense, but please read the entire thread before replying:

For reference:
1. The Dragonwrought feat can only be taken by Kobolds.
2. It can only be taken at first level
3. The 'ignore aging penalties' is mentioned under the Kobold Aging Effects Table in Races of the Dragon.
(p. 39: Ability penalties due to age do not apply to dragonwrought kobolds. See the Dragonwrought feat, page 100.)