Hight crit

[D3nt3]

I dont know if someone already asked this.

Assuming players can only score critical hits on a natural 20 (PHB 278) and he does scores a "critical on a miss" due to some other powers.

For exemple the adent champion power, where he scores criticals on a miss.

Supposing he does miss and scores a critical, if he is weilding a magic weap or a high crit weap that allows him to do extra dices on crits, can he miss and do 1[W] extra damage?

 

[keterys]

I don't actually think anyone scores criticals on a miss. But if you're allowing them, you can make the rules whatever you want, eh?

I guess relevant info:
1) You can only do extra damage if you first do damage, so it needs a power that deals damage on a miss
2) Some of these bonus damages might say when you get a critical _hit_. Up to you how much you care about that 'hit' word.

But, umm, I'd advise against allowing critical misses. It's just bad paradox. Hit or don't, move on.

 

[Flipguarder]

Omg whenever this thread doesn't bet necromancied into life, it just mutates. IT CANNOT BE KILLED!

 

[Jhaelen]

But, umm, I'd advise against allowing critical misses. It's just bad paradox. Hit or don't, move on.

I'd say on a critical miss you hit yourself

 

[DracoSuave]

I dont know if someone already asked this.

Assuming players can only score critical hits on a natural 20 (PHB 278) and he does scores a "critical on a miss" due to some other powers.

The critical hit rules tell you that does not happen. If you miss, you do not score a critical. You -may- score an automatic hit, but only if it's a natural 20.

For exemple the adent champion power, where he scores criticals on a miss.

The critical hit rules tell you that does not happen. If you miss, you do not score a critical. You -may- score an automatic hit, but only if it's a natural 20. Some will tell you those rules don't apply because of convoluted logic and mumbo jumbo. Others will say the rules do apply because they say they do and nothing else does.

But eh. I'm on the side of 'Use the damn rules provided' rather than 'Ignore ones that are inconvenient to you as a player' when settling rules arguments
OH GOD THEY JUST SUCKED ME BACK IN.

Supposing he does miss and scores a critical, if he is weilding a magic weap or a high crit weap that allows him to do extra dices on crits, can he miss and do 1[W] extra damage?

No. He just misses. You do not get to successfully critical and miss at the same time. Scoring a critical is not a guarantee of the critical, read the critical hit rules.

Even if he did get the critical effect, then you'd be adding extra damage onto no damage which means that you don't get to use the extra damage anyways. This is also what happens when you critical with a power that deals no damage.

 

[keterys]

Let's keep the ardent champion thing separate from this. If you think the ardent champion scores a critical hit on two 2s, it's a _critical hit_ not a critical that happens to miss. If you think it misses instead of crits, then it's a _miss_ not a critical anything.

I really think the whole question is moot.

 

[boar]

So how about we answer the OP's question, eh?

The question you asked was debated for over 20 pages in another thread with no conclusive answer, so you have two possibilities:

1) There is no such thing as "critical on a miss." It's a just a miss, and does no damage of any kind.

2) There IS such a thing, in which case, yes, you would get the crit bonus dice just like on any other crit.

 

[babinro]

While this has been debated quite a bit already, personally it seems to me the intention is clear. Your attack would have to hit the target to trigger the critical effects and thus gaining the bonuses provided by a high crit weapon.

If you choose to read such rules and apply strictly as is written then so be it. There is nothing officially wrong with that, you would just consider that a missed roll a critical hit because of the feature and apply damage accordingly (you would not also apply missed damage/effects though). Effectively, the act of rolling a 2 with Ardent champion wouldn't indicate a hit or miss until compared to the previous roll at which point it could be described by the player/DM as what it actually is.

When things like this come up, I like to get the parties consensus and stick with that rule until official rulings come out. Naturally a party is more likely to favor themselves in any ruling, but a DM can make use of their classes as well, which should inherently make any group decision balanced and keep overall complaints down.