HIPS queston for Assassins and Shadowdancers
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UltimaGabe
First Post
Of course- for two reasons:
1. Having Darkvision doesn't negate shadows. It lets you see in the dark, but a shadow is still a shadow, and although you may be able to see through it, it's still there.
2. A Shadowdancer isn't physically hiding in a shadow. Their ability is supernatural- and simply uses existing shadows to help them to hide while being observed. So even if you could see through the shadows, the shadows are still there, and therefore they can still hide.
1. Having Darkvision doesn't negate shadows. It lets you see in the dark, but a shadow is still a shadow, and although you may be able to see through it, it's still there.
2. A Shadowdancer isn't physically hiding in a shadow. Their ability is supernatural- and simply uses existing shadows to help them to hide while being observed. So even if you could see through the shadows, the shadows are still there, and therefore they can still hide.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Of course you can't!
Hide in Plain Sight is nice, but it doesn't allow you to hide from someone who has Darkvision.
Why?
Because in order to Hide, two conditions must be met:
1. You must not be observed.
2. You must have Cover or Concealment.
Hide in Plain Sight makes it so that you do not have to meet the first condition, specifically: "... can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind."
So, you can ignore the first condition, and so long as you are within 10 feet of shadow, you can hide without Cover - which therefore requires that you are using the shadows for concealment.
Given that, how does this interact with Darkvision (or True Seeing)?
"Characters with darkvision (dwarves and half-orcs) can see lit areas normally as well as dark areas within 60 feet. A creature can’t hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover."
In other words, shadows don't exist within 60 feet of a character with darkvision.
The Shadow Dancer or Assassin wraps, from the perception of the dwarf, nothing around themselves, and stands in the middle of a hallway.
The SD or Asn fades from the sight of the human standing next to the dwarf, but is still plainly visible to the dwarf, for whom there are no shadows.
Likewise, you could make a Hide Check in the area of shadowy illumination 35' feet from a torch, and Hide successfully from the human, but you'd stand out like a sore thumb to the dwarf.
Hide in Plain Sight is nice, but it doesn't allow you to hide from someone who has Darkvision.
Why?
Because in order to Hide, two conditions must be met:
1. You must not be observed.
2. You must have Cover or Concealment.
Hide in Plain Sight makes it so that you do not have to meet the first condition, specifically: "... can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind."
So, you can ignore the first condition, and so long as you are within 10 feet of shadow, you can hide without Cover - which therefore requires that you are using the shadows for concealment.
Given that, how does this interact with Darkvision (or True Seeing)?
"Characters with darkvision (dwarves and half-orcs) can see lit areas normally as well as dark areas within 60 feet. A creature can’t hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover."
In other words, shadows don't exist within 60 feet of a character with darkvision.
The Shadow Dancer or Assassin wraps, from the perception of the dwarf, nothing around themselves, and stands in the middle of a hallway.
The SD or Asn fades from the sight of the human standing next to the dwarf, but is still plainly visible to the dwarf, for whom there are no shadows.
Likewise, you could make a Hide Check in the area of shadowy illumination 35' feet from a torch, and Hide successfully from the human, but you'd stand out like a sore thumb to the dwarf.
Sejs
First Post
WotC customer service is spotty at best, but for once they're right. Darkvision doesn't negate HiPS - HiPS removes any need for cover or concealment as long as you're within 10' of some sort of shadow. Darkvision, by contrast, would let you see thru shadows that are within your range, but it doesn't negate the fact that they are there - they still exist, you can just see thru them. HiPS requires the shadows to be present, however it does not require that the person you're hiding from have their vision obscured by said shadows
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