D&D 5E Does anyone play 5e Perception rules as written?

My hypothesis is no, they don’t.
No. Nobody wants the hassle if disadvantage on Perception.

If you have Darkvision, you can see in the dark. Simple.

Switching away from low-light vision and making Dark vision super common was a bad, bad idea. (Having low level PCs actually fear the dark is a good idea)

Don't make it ubiquitous and then also make it hard to play and use.

Don't give someone Darkvision and then tell him using a light source is a good idea.

It's much better when Darkvision works as you expect it to, and only a few races/species/heritages have access to it.

This way, a group of players CAN be darkness hunters, but they need to play a group of actual underground people (dwarves and the like).

Wood dwellers like Elves and Gnomes can have cat-like Low-Light vision.

Monsters should definitely be able to roam around in darkness. And to do so without silly almost-blind penalties.
 
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The rules I am thinking about involve the interaction of Darkvision, environmental lighting, and the Perception skill:
  • Areas of dim light are lightly obscured, and give disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks. [PHB 183]
  • Darkvision lets you see in dim light as in bright light, and in darkness as if you were in dim light. [PHB 184-85, and relevant race entries]
  • Therefore, anyone using Darkvision to see in the dark should make their Perception rolls with disadvantage (or have -5 to their passive perception)

I don't think this is a hot take, but some people might:

There are really a very limited number of states. The characters can see something without a check. The characters can't see something (because of darkness, range, etc). Or the DM sets a DC and the characters roll against it. In this last case, the characters either have a normal roll, advantage, or disadvantage.

These states are only important if the characters have different vision abilities. That is to say, there could be some cases where some characters may by able to roll while others can't. Or cases where some characters roll with advantage/disadvantage and others don't.

But, in the last three 5e campaigns I have played in, literally everyone has had Darkvision from some source or another. Mostly racial. Sometimes from the Twilight Cleric sharing their ability. Maybe some other source. But it's basically a constant.

The net affect of this is that every player is in exactly the same state: the DM sets a DC, and players roll against it. Functionally, there is little significant difference from everyone rolling at disadvantage, or the DM setting the DC a little higher because he thinks it should be more difficult. Ditto for setting the number for passive perception check. When everyone has the same vision ability, it doesn't really matter if you are strictly following the rules or making everyone roll disadvantage, or if the DM is just adjusting the DC.

Now, there may be some cases where people have different ranges of Darkvision. But that just means someone won't get to roll; it still doesn't matter if everyone within range gets advantage/disadvantage or not. And there may be cases where part of the map is lit differently from another, but that doesn't come up particularly often, and is handled appropriately when it does. And I suppose if someone had the Skulker feat or some other special ability, but as the OP stated, these cases are exceedingly rare.

So, are we always playing "Rules as Written" at my table? One could argue that often we technically aren't. The DM only rarely forces everyone to roll at disadvantage. Does it make any functional difference to the game? Also no. The DM simply sets the DC at what he thinks is appropriate for the level of lighting in a situation, assuming all the characters have Darkvision (which they do). It's a different method with essentially the same result.

Now, I will admit that the math isn't a perfect match. Dis/advantage is normally assumed to be approximately equivalent to +/-4, but this is a rough number. Towards the extremes of a DC range (i.e. a player is very likely or very unlikely to make a roll) the dis/advantage systems has a more notable effect on the probabilities. But I am openly hand-waving that math for the sake of this argument

To go further, I will say this is really the limitation of a system like 5e that has very few modifications to rolls, and bounded accuracy. With a more complex system like 3.x, you could have cases where characters had a lot of highly specific bonuses and penalties that changed due to multiple factors. Not to mention the fact that 3e also had low-light vision and darkvision as mechanically different abilities. But of course, you pay for that complexity with, well, complexity.
 

@Deset Gled

The complaints are two-fold:

By making Darkvision easily available, players are robbed of the sensation darkness is mysterious and fearsome. The current rules work against having darkness as a foe (at low levels). The idea you feel elated and relieved when you finally gain Darkvision through spell or item is lost.

I know many people doesn't care about D&D as a world simulator, but giving every night prowling and Underdark monster disadvantage on its scouting is unworkable. And so very unnecessary.
 

Well he said it in a Sage Advice podcast, so if not RAW, it's apparently RAI?
Sort of, but not really. When 5E came out, they deliberately made certain rules ambiguous to encourage "rulings, not rules." This was largely due to a massive divide from the playtest on how to handle things like stealth (mostly 3E players vs. 4E players). This is why you had Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford with different views on how to use it, despite both being rules honchos.
 

There's also a rule about when you lose your passive perception due to distraction, such as map making or similar activities while adventuring.

That implies but does not outright state that you have your passive in most other situations. Or possibly just when adventuring - a time you might assume general alertness, as opposed to relaxing at a bar. :unsure:
 

No. Nobody wants the hassle if disadvantage on Perception.

If you have Darkvision, you can see in the dark. Simple.

Switching away from low-light vision and making Dark vision super common was a bad, bad idea. (Having low level PCs actually fear the dark is a good idea)

Don't make it ubiquitous and then also make it hard to play and use.

Don't give someone Darkvision and then tell him using a light source is a good idea.

It's much better when Darkvision works as you expect it to, and only a few races/species/heritages have access to it.

This way, a group of players CAN be darkness hunters, but they need to play a group of actual underground people (dwarves and the like).

Wood dwellers like Elves and Gnomes can have cat-like Low-Light vision.

Monsters should definitely be able to roam around in darkness. And to do so without silly almost-blind penalties.


I'd go
  • Low Light Vision: See dim light as bright light
  • Elf Sight: See dim light as bright light. Weapon and spell ranges are doubled.
  • Night Vision: See dim light as bright light and darkness as dim light.
  • Darkvision: See dim light and natural darkness as bright light
  • Devil Sight: See dim light and any darkness as bright light

No ranges.

Only underdark creatures and orcs get darkvision.
 

I know many people doesn't care about D&D as a world simulator, but giving every night prowling and Underdark monster disadvantage on its scouting is unworkable. And so very unnecessary.
As one who does care (sometimes too much!) I think it works fine. Many creatures in 5E who are night prowling, etc. have keen senses for sight, which offsets the penalty to perception for darkvision. Otherwise, for creature which rely on smell (many prowlers when tracking), the penalty wouldn't exist since they aren't perceiving by sight in the first place.

Even the most keen-sighted creatures IRL need light, even if an extremely small amount. Creatures adapted to absolute darkness don't even use sight (there is no light at all to see by), but smell, hearing, even sensing vibrations are used instead.

By making Darkvision easily available, players are robbed of the sensation darkness is mysterious and fearsome. The current rules work against having darkness as a foe (at low levels). The idea you feel elated and relieved when you finally gain Darkvision through spell or item is lost.
I agree with this to a point, but I know when using VTT and lighting effects, exploring (larger) underground areas can still be scary, even with darkvision. Long halls or cooridors end in blackness, and players still wonder what might be looming ahead.

Imagine walking around in daylight if your sight was limited to 60 feet or so? For a creature normally used to "infinite" vision, that would be scary IMO. Since we live much of our lives indoors, a 60-foot limitation wouldn't be a limitation since walls stop our sight already. However, in larger areas or outside, I think we'd feel differently. I know I couldn't see my neighbor's house, or even the trees that form the border between our two properties. If I stood at the end of my house, I couldn't see the end of the garage at the far side (44' house + 24' garage is 68 feet...); I could barely see half the garage actually.
 

The very concept of "darkvision" is a bit silly IMO. You cannot see in the "dark", you need light, some amount anyway. I will add I know for 5E terms, darkness includes really very low light (which would allow special sight), but also no light conditions (such as in a vault). Therein lies the problem. What darkvision really should be is just making dim light considered bright light, and darkness REMAINS darkness--you are blind, effectively. Or add a final level of light, "blackout" or "no light" instead of "darkness" being the end of the spectrum.

This brings to mind the AD&D distinction between infravision and ultravision. Nightvision (what 5E darkvision really is in theory) is also different. The graphic below is one I use when demonstrating what the different vision capabilities might (our take anyway) look like for D&D.

Visions.png
 

I get a weird joy from the fact that even 10 years later, on the verge of an edition update, we are STILL arguing about such a simple and fundamental rule.

Also, "passive" doesn't mean passive,it means "repeated." Passive perception is you actively searching as you go. The rule is there to keep rolling to a minimum.
 


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