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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 7209738" data-attributes="member: 6688937">Not a problem, so long as we all remember that this system is still an idea.Yes.I hadn't envisioned a specific mapping. I would have let the table decide when a particular save would or wouldn't apply given the narrative descriptors. Although, yes, that might be a source of friction. I've been musing if maybe some of the save shouldn't be more broad or less particular than others, just to leave some wiggle room. Like maybe the ones derived from stats or race are very nebulous but those derived from class/skill are more specific: "Elven Grace" vs. "Tumble away".Good question. I suspect that's the sort of thing playtesting would need to sort out.In spite of what many people say, my close observations of HP mechanics in play indicate that any narrative results the DM/players ascribe to an attack are easily forgotten or handwaved away. Not to mention that they have the problems I indicated upstream, which make perfect sense with the mechanic, but are not (IME) observed in play. That is, it makes perfect sense by Gygax to narrate the 16 point hit to the 100 point fighter as nothing but a miss, but I never see it in play.However, the criterion for including something as a save is simple....people want it in or it makes sense for the character. I mean, rogues should probably have less "divine favor" than do paladins, but they should both still be in the game.I disagree about the current state of the DM's narrative call. Have you ever heard of Schrodinger's Wounds? That's what I observe at the table all the time. Combat is regularly nothing but a numerical attrition game only nominally attached to the narrative. Whatever the DM says at a given moment when someone loses HP is completely and totally irrelevant to the game and is quickly forgotten.  UNLESS! It happens to be the hit that does a character in, then maybe it matters. Its the same with spells, the only ones that matter to the narrative are the ones with impact outside the HP structure.  If a character is at 12 of 46 HP, you have utterly no idea what has transpired to get him there, and its totally irrelevant to play. If one character has been narrated with deep, bleeding, dragon-teeth marks all over and the other is just a bit shy on luck or divine favor...it doesn't matter! Cure Serious Wounds works for both...and don't get me started on how you can Uncanny Dodge a Fireball without moving.As for the rest of the question:a) accident, but it seems reasonable for those lists of saves to "live" on the character sheet.b) depending on how specificly the saves are written, yes...mostly accident.c) design accident, I don't consider it a feature or goal, but its there.d) benefitI'm not married to this particular system by any means, but that's the kind of stuff I want to "fix" for narrative-central play.</blockquote>

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