[Hit Points - Minor Rant] How few is too few?

[ForceUser@Home]

3e does alot more damage than previous editions... low hps hurts alot more than it used to.

Roleplaying is fine but not everyone likes writing up new PCs all the time or never getting to try new things with the one they have, because they have to take Toughness a bunch of times. Have you had any combat in your games? How can you not see the importance of good hps in 3e?

Crothian... the DM may not allow one to play smart, or the DM may also play smart at which point low hps mean dead PCs.

Also Forceuser not everyone enjoys having a gimp PC... how does their perception effect your PC?

Yes, I've seen LOTS of chunky, brutal 3E combat, and I know that good hit points are valuable. I also know that most of the time we finish fights with over half hit points, easily.

Their perception affects my PC not at all, but come on...low hit points is not the end of the world. The monsters in the MM have average hit points, or the DM rolls them as the die lies...why should it be any different for the players? With the proliferation of magic items in 3E, it's easy to get average hit points, and I say again...what's wrong with average?

 

[Forrester]

Roleplaying schmoleplaying. Unless the DM is comfortable with feeling forced to throw nothing tougher than orcs at the party, he's right to be concerned with the incredible wimpiness of this sad excuse for a meat-shield. Who, if the DM is doing his job, should die again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

And again, and again, and again, and again.

And again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again . . . .

39hp at 6th level? What happens when a couple of trolls walk up to him and start swinging? This guy isn't going to be able to handle one good claw/claw/rend.

 

[ForceUser@Home]

Re: What's wrong with you?

2, 1, 2, 3, 1 are not average die rolls for a fighter, regardless of his CON. Average rolls would be more like 5, 6, 5, 6, 5.

My question any time I see a post like this is...

What's wrong with you?

Why should your opinion matter at all if another player is unhappy with his character. This is a matter for the DM and player to work out.

You may enjoy the challenge (and the misery and suffering) that goes hand in hand with playing a character crippled by his stats, but not every player is like you. I see this same level of intolerance displayed over and over again by those people claiming to be 'roleplayers'.

I am crippled in real life and let me tell you, it's not much fun to have difficulty walking or doing other activities that most people take for granted. I can easily understand why someone who is playing a game might like to avoid a similar situation being forced upon them because of a few bad die rolls.

As a DM I would never force a player to continue with a character that they did not enjoy playing.

Nothing wrong here, thanks. The point I'm arguing is the character is not crippled by these hit point rolls. Gear that the character can afford with appropriate wealth can more than compensate for low base hit points. Therefore, what's the problem?

I'm all for players being happy with their characters. One of the players in my own game has already stated that if he rolls lower than avergae base hit points, he's retiring the character and starting over one exactly like it. Fine, whatever makes him happy, because I want him ot have fun, but again...come on. You are capable of running an interesting character who uses gear to bump him up to average hit points. And I'm sorry, but 1,2,3 +3 Con = average, assuming a like-leveled character without a Con bonus, like the game does.

Finally, I'd like to know how you came to infer that I was forcing anyone to do anything. All I'm doing is venting.

 

[ForceUser@Home]

I'm sorry you think so. I don't agree.

I completely understand why a player might feel that their character's low hitpoints ruins the character concept they had. Whether they're correct or not isn't the point. The point is that it makes them feel like they can't/won't have fun with that character. Since fun is the reason we all play, why not give them max hitpoints for second level too, so you can get on with the game, and let the players feel some attachment to their characters. Just because one player (you, in this case) wouldn't mind playing a handicapped character, that's no reason to insist that other players like it.

What I'm saying here is the game is set up to allow for these things. Why not play the game as written?

 

[ForceUser@Home]

Roleplaying schmoleplaying. Unless the DM is comfortable with feeling forced to throw nothing tougher than orcs at the party, he's right to be concerned with the incredible wimpiness of this sad excuse for a meat-shield. Who, if the DM is doing his job, should die again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

And again, and again, and again, and again.

And again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again . . . .

39hp at 6th level? What happens when a couple of trolls walk up to him and start swinging? This guy isn't going to be able to handle one good claw/claw/rend.

So take a third of your 6th level wealth there and buy a +2 Con item for 4000 gp. Or have a party member who took Craft Wondrous Item make it for 2000 gp. The option is there.

 

[tburdett]

Let's follow your logic ...

Let's use your logic here for a moment...

<Begin Quote>

What I'm saying here is the game is set up to allow for these things. Why not play the game as written?

<End Quote>

The game also allows you to roll a character who has a 3 in every stat. Do you still defend the idea that since the game allows this it should be played as written? Using your logic a character like this is just as playable and fun as any other!

If the player in the original example continued to roll poorly (no better than a 2 or 3) for the next few levels he would approach 10th level with around 50 HP. That number of hit points at that level would preclude him from engaging in combat with any of the creatures that he would normally encounter. Combine that with the Fighters low number of skill points and nearly non-existant class skill list and you have the definition of useless.

Here's a question for you! If you are so into playing challenging characters then why don't you voluntarily use the character that I described above? Just put a 3 in for every stat and 'roleplay' to your hearts content!

 

[Number47]

As long as you allow a player the option to roll up a new player rather than be FORCED to have the dead character raised, then the players should play the characters as they rolled them. Should you retire a character that can't get better than average damage?

I mean, what does hit points really have to do with character concept? Hit points are a number that have nothing to do with it. Just lump it and play it. Who knows, maybe he might just live. If he dies, so what? Make the new, identical character with different hit point rolls. Call him Fighter #2, because the numbers are obviously what's important to you.

 

[Limper]

HP items = Killed by a Dispel Magic.... this aside.

Player resource to deal with world.... one Character.

DM resource's... The entire Multiverse.

Thats why it sould be different for the players... IF it matters to them. Players have extremely limited resources the DM has unlimited resources.

Most of us are average.... some want to NOT be so. Average is our lives... dont you grow weary of it?

 

[ForceUser@Home]

As long as you allow a player the option to roll up a new player rather than be FORCED to have the dead character raised, then the players should play the characters as they rolled them. Should you retire a character that can't get better than average damage?

I mean, what does hit points really have to do with character concept? Hit points are a number that have nothing to do with it. Just lump it and play it. Who knows, maybe he might just live. If he dies, so what? Make the new, identical character with different hit point rolls. Call him Fighter #2, because the numbers are obviously what's important to you.

lol, no, see, you've got it backwards. The number's aren't what's important...that's my point! But anyway, I can see I'm in the minority here. I'm not going to force anyone to play a character with low hit points, I just wish players wouldn't concentrate on the numbers so much.

 

[Ace]

Sorry but if you made me sit on a substantially below average series of HP die rolls I would walk out of the game.

The fact is most D&D scenarios involve a lot of combat and unless your hp per die are at least average, well the game is over for you.

If you have 37 hit point at 6th level you are dead in three rounds
and thats no fun at all

An example --- You party is in the dungeon and runs into another party. The get the drop on you

Round 1 -- Fireball 21pts save for half 10

Round 2-- Arrow from the improved invisible sniper -- Rogue 3 fighter 4 15 points

Round 3-- magic missles 14 points ooops

and thats an easy suggestion

If you game doesn't involve much combat then low hP guy will do fine but most D&D games are very combat centric

RP oriented players usually play other systems.

What I do is assume that the player charcters have 75% max HP for the each level after 1---

That way they can take on the hellish encounters I throw at them